Reloading 8mm Mauser

All the North American reload info for it are very much on the consertive side.
I went with 30-06 load data.
I believe it was 50gn. of IMR 4064 I stopped at.
 
USE THE PROPER 8X57mm data- it's out there and SOME actions will show PRESSURE SIGNS if you use 3006 data- and typical 8mm bullets used 170 and 196 grain ( which were REALLY HOT) AS LOADED BY NORMA- using a 150 grain bullet, my speer 11 calls for 47 grains low for a vel of 2695, and a top end of 51 grains for a high of 2915- the 170 grain which is quite common, is 45 grains low @ 2509, and a top end of 49@2723
the old ww2 german loading as LOADED BY NORMA( which you can't duplicate as they don't make that powder anymore) used a 196 grain fmj which is 42of 4064 for the bottom, 2196, and 46 for the top of 2434
using 3006 data,( with the same weight bullet, you START off with 48 grains, for 2700, and a top end of 52 grains @2941- but you're 1 grain OVER MAXIMUM CHARGE- granted, the rifle PROBABLY can take it, but once you get into overcharge situations, funny things can happen- the RELOADING MANUAL is your bible and to go subbing one caliber for another is DANGEROUS- esp when there's common data out there
 
I agree with T-Star; case capacities (internal volumes) are not the same; 30-06 is about 68-69 grains of water (about 4.4 cc) while 8x57JS only contains 62-63 grains of water (about 4 cc). Interchanging the datas can sometimes be done, but you need to at least consider and adjust the loads to the right ratio, but it's still not the best idea to do so neither. Use published loads, from known and trustable sources.
Hodgdon.com is your best source for variety and are quite close to CIP specs.
 
"...went with 30-06 load data..." Proper 8mm Mauser/8 x 57/7.92 x 57 data isn't hard to find. There's buckets of it on Hodgdon's site. And in nearly ever manual.
.30-06 IMR4064 pressures with a 150 grain bullet are much higher than 8mm 150 grain loads. 50 grains of 4064 is over max for an 8mm 150 too.
IMR4064 is given for the accuracy load with 8mm 150's(military ammo used a 153 grain bullet. A 150 will do nicely. Make sure the bullets you buy are .323".) in my old Lyman book though. Versatile powder, so it is. Good for .308 and .30-06 as well.
 
like i said, it depends on the RELOADING MANUAL- in my speer, with 150 grain bullets, you still have a couple of grains to play with- A GREAT DEAL of the manuals have had their data LAWYERIZED down to the point of where they won't function the actions- best to get data from a NUMBER OF DIFFERENT sources, then go with what seems to be the agreed STARTING LOAD- DO NOT PICK THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE OR THE TOP END- YOUR RIFLE MAY NOT STAND ANYWHERE NEAR THAT
and i know , the velocities are the same or better with less powder in the new manuals- well, that just doesn't add up
 
I use 4064 in my current loads, shooting 170's and 220's.

If you are shooting 150's at paper targets, starting around 44 gr and stopping as soon as you find a load your rifle likes would be safe. If you are hunting, you might want to push your load more. Personally I find the 8x57JS really shines with heavier bullets, and that is what I use generally.

Factory 8x57JS is totally watered down; about 400 fps, which is crazy. Also, nobody seems to factory load heavier bullets. So you're on the right path reloading for it.
 
RE: WWII Mauser Load Data

WWII 8mm mauser ammunition used a 193-198 grain bullet with a speed of 2350-2550 feet per second. If loading for a hunting round, you can get much better performance.

WWI 8mm mauser ammunition used a 150 grain bullet that travelled at a faster speed.

Several powders will work but the trick is to keep the speed as close to the originals as possible (for WWII performance) and try using powders that have a military lineage (eg. IMR 4895 and IMR 4831).

Most powders will accomplish the above speeds with a load between 46 grains up to 56 grains (compressed load - high pressure).

With heaver loads make sure that your rifle is headspaced (in an RC or mis-matched rifle) late war rifles may not be as strong. Near the end of the war the German's were even know to have added rock salt to their powder to make up the charge and to fullfill contracts.

North American load data is very conservative. The mauser action is a very strong action and the German's didn't mind loading for their action. If using a non-mauser action stay with the North American load data.

It is interesting, pre-1972 load info gives higher loads than post-1972 load data and more recent load data is even more conservative. For example, my Weatherby 300 load data (circa 1968) is about 5-10 grains higher than the max load data on several modern load books. It is all about liability.

I hope this helps and check your cases, and work up loads. Don't go blowing yourself or your rifle up!!!
 
Here is what I used to reload for the first time and shoot my Mausers for the first time as well since I acquired them. The load worked quite well for rifles and carbines ranging from the Gewehr 98 and Kar98a up to the Kar98k and Mauser Banner standard modell.

As far as finding a safe starting load, I consulted three different sources (two of them were reloading books and the final source was Hodgdon reloading data center) and asked around on a few forums to confirm the loading I had picked. As a result, this is the load I used a month ago when I took my Mausers out for a test fire.

42 grs IMR 4064
170 gr Hornady Round nose
Remington 8mm Mauser brass

I fired a single round in each Mauser and checked the brass afterwards for pressure signs or anything out of the ordinary but everything checked out.

Hope this helps you in your quest for a good, safe load.
 
Folks, let's try to remember the history of the cartridge

Original 8x57, what now is called the 8x57J, had a 227-grain RNFMJ bullet of .3189" diameter. I am going both by the books (TEXT BOOK OF SMALL ARMS - 1909) and a bullet which my great-uncle sent home before he went MIA. MV was 2093 ft/sec from a 29-inch tube. Powder load was 40.75 grains of Nitro-cellulose powder and chamber pressure was 21 Imperial Long Tons per square inch: 47,040 PSI.

This was replaced in 1904 by the JS loading, which was standard for rifles after that date, and for which many earlier rifles were reworked. The JS used a 154-grain spitzer FMJ of .323" diameter at 2882 ft/sec MV, also from a 29-inch barrel. Powder load was 48.4 grains and powder type was described as "Nitro-cellulose". Chamber pressure in this case was only 17.5 Imperial Long Tons per square inch: 39,200 PSI.

I have disassembled German ammunition from the period of the Great War and found that it was loaded with a square-cut flake powder, likely with a burn rate at the level of 3031. You can extrapolate your own load data from these figures.

The 196-grain boat-tailed spitzer FMJ loading, the JsS, came out in 1917. It was restricted for machine-gun use only and it was specified as anti-Tank ammunition. This is the loading that that nice Mister Hitler adopted for his standard previous to World War Two.

The even-later SmE loading was an effort to come up with something with the aerodynamic performance of the JsS but also using less lead, this metal being in short supply. The result was a triplex bullet with a mild-steel core, lead envelope and plated-mild-steel jacket weighing 178 grains, conveniently close to the 178 grains of the SmK armour-piercing load.

Considering the powders which were available during the Great War, I would think that charges of 4895 approaching the originals should be safe in a good-condition Mauser. The 4895 is, after all, a very progressive powder and certainly should offer a margin of safety over the old fast-burning flake powders.

I have here a small amount of Turkish ammunition which is said to be loaded to the 1904 specification. I have transferred 20 rounds of this to new brass cases with fresh primers and, later this Summer (if it ever stops raining here) will chrono all 20 rounds, using a 1916 Kar98aZ, a late Gew 1888nm, this the model with the heavy chamber, a 1915 Gew 98 and a "black" rifle from the 1920s which just happens to have a perfect bore. When done, I will post the results here. We should be able to determine just how much (if any) velocity is lost with the short barrel of the Kar98aZ and the 1920s barrel should give top MV, one would think.

I will then attempt to duplicate whatever performance I get, using Hornady 150s, as 154s seem to be unavailable.

But that old ammo was loaded with very fast powder.... so, we shall see what we shall see.......
 
That will be the the rifle I try next, the Gewehr 88. The one I have is from Erfurt 1890, has been modified to take the spitzgeschoss, and was converted to take the Mauser style charger clips. She also saw Turkish service at one point. The interesting thing, and the most upnerving, is the barrel is the original one to the rifle (very good bore too!) but unlike later made Gewehr 88s or Turkish replacement barrels, this one has not been re-enforced near the chamber nor is the barrel made from the higher quality "nm" marked steel. It does, however, bear Prussian and Turkish arabic firing proofs on the bottom of the barrel and a dozen inspector stamps (the most I have ever seen on a German rifle). I can only imagine the type of German/Turkish ammo she would have used.

Hence the dilemma that I have faced for many months on taking this beautiful rifle to the range. The bore slugged out to .321" on the grooves and .311" on the lands and I have acquired a .321" Hornady 170gr round nose bullet for the job. Given the success with my Mauser load, I will certainly post back on what happens when I have use the same style load that I did for my Mausers.
 
Nabs: so YOU're the guy who bought those Hornady 170s!!!!! I use them in .32-40s for a couple of fellows who are shooting their Grandfathers' rifles and find that it can do some very good things in an 1888. To be honest, I actually ran some RWS AP through my own 1888 without the reinforced chamber. Kicked. There was no CGN at that time. The ammo was HOT and there might still be some floating around: SIR sold a whack of it. Brass cases, FMJ slug, just RWS E37 headstamp. Slugs just drift right through a chunk of B-25 belly armour and keep on goin'.

That garbage Turk corrosive stuff was a re-creation of the WWI load. I have a bit that I hoard, just for testing. With fresh primers, it will do under an inch if your rifle likes it, so the ammo itself is a most valuable source of components for testing. Wish I had more of it! Original primers are very dodgy these days and the ammo generally won't even get 3 MOA. Fresh primers are the solution, so I transfer over the Turk loads to freshly-primed new brass and it shoots as nice as anything I can make. Johnny Turk knew what he was doing!

You WILL fall in love with shooting the Gew 1888. Just smooth as butter.

Keep happy, all!
 
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Those Hornady bullets are pretty good for target shooting. Truthfully, I was extremely pleased to hear my Mausers sing for the first time since I acquired them. Better yet, some of them were in varying states of condition, some unsafe to be fired until properly cleaned up.

Nothing quite like firing the rifle that your great grandfather was trained on eh ?

I seriously cannot wait for the day I bring my 88.05 out to the range. Her action and bolt operation, like you say, is smooth as butter (if not smoother!). The bore, for being over 120 years old, is excellent and the rifle just begs to be shot.

I forgot to mention I was also using Winchester large rifle primers for the aforementioned load.
 
I'm horrifically bad about reloading regularly...:redface:...but I can't stand having a firearm around with no loaded ammo for it, so I got a couple of boxes of the S & B stuff....;)....looks impressive, esp. with the velocity-data, etc....:D
 
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