Reloading 8x57mm for Husqvarna rifle

mosinmaster

mosinmaster

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I have a Husqvarna 640 FN 98 action in 8x57. I'm planning to start reloading for it using Sierra 170 or Speer 200 gr bullets. I plan to use IMR 4064. My rifle was made in 1948 and I do want to be cautious with stressing this old action. What is a generally good powder charge that gives European velocities in these rifles? I don't think my Speer manual's powder charges give European velocities. I plan to use the factory express style flip sights which I believe are regulated to the 200gr bullet. Also, I have never loaded for a Mauser 98, do they respond well to loading the bullet just off the lands?
 
I can't really give you specific loads, but it might help you to know that "8x57" is the name given to the cartridge by the American association called SAAMI, and, in their wisdom, they established the American pressure standards for that cartridge. The European name for the same cartridge is 8x57IS (sometimes given as 8x57JS), as listed by the C.I.P., who set the pressure standards for Europeans. If you cruise through the ammunition listings on the PPU site, you will see that PPU lists and makes both of these - and they also use the identical bullets in each - but their 8x57 loads (presumably to SAAMI standards) are all slower than their 8x57IS loads (presumably made to C.I.P. standards).

A second point - I doubt that an FN made 1948 Mauser 98 is considered an "old" action - I think most writers are referring to the 1893 / 1895 / 1896 Mausers, or even earlier, when they fuss about "stressing" an "old" mauser. For the 8x57 in particular, the earliest had a .319 groove diameter, (the Patrone 88); the design was changed in 1903 to .323 diameter and the name was also changed to 8x57IS for that larger groove size. (Beside "8x57IS, the cartridge is also referred to as 7.92x57IS Mauser). I believe the bore size stayed the same - .311" - just the depth of the grooves were increased.
 
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I wouldn't worry to much about stressing a Swedish Mauser from 1948 for the reasons that Potashminer stated. I believe the switch from .318" to .323" occurred somewhere around 1905 (give or take). Things get tricky with the old Gewehr 88's (the original 8mm Mauser), as some of those were rebarrelled / rebored for the .323 bullet. So, when people talk about "old" Mausers, they mean 100+ years old, not 70 years old. :)

For specific loads, Hodgdon has a good website that will give you a starting range. I noticed that a lot of the newer reloading manuals have milder recommendations that manuals from 30 or 40 years ago (probably to mitigate liability). When I get home, I can PM you some loads I've tried in the past.

Also for how far to load off the lands, I use the Hornady OAL comparator to adjust my loads to about 20 thousandths off the lands and they shoot just fine.
 
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Those FN based Husqvarnas use the "Supreme" action, which was touted to be the best made 98 action at the time (late 40's, early 50's). There is no cause for concern regarding the integrity of these actions. Knowing that the published loads for the 8 mm are generally anemic, you should look for a pamphlet called The Complete Reloading Manual for the 8 mm Mauser, published by Loadbooks - they have a website that you can order from. FWIW - The Speer data is relatively hot compared to other North American data. Unfortunately, the hot European loads all utilize European powders, rather than your preferred 4064....
 
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Ok thanks guys, will do some work up. So even the Speer 200 gr Hot Cor data is anemic relative to the Euro stuff? I'll search up some of the vintage load data.
 
Potashminer said:
I can't really give you specific loads, but it might help you to know that "8x57" is the name given to the cartridge by the American association called SAAMI, and, in their wisdom, they established the American pressure standards for that cartridge. The European name for the same cartridge is 8x57IS (sometimes given as 8x57JS), as listed by the C.I.P., who set the pressure standards for Europeans. If you cruise through the ammunition listings on the PPU site, you will see that PPU lists and makes both of these - and they also use the identical bullets in each - but their 8x57 loads (presumably to SAAMI standards) are all slower than their 8x57IS loads (presumably made to C.I.P. standards).

A second point - I doubt that an FN made 1948 Mauser 98 is considered an "old" action - I think most writers are referring to the 1893 / 1895 / 1896 Mausers, or even earlier, when they fuss about "stressing" an "old" mauser. For the 8x57 in particular, the earliest had a .319 groove diameter, (the Patrone 88); the design was changed in 1903 to .323 diameter and the name was also changed to 8x57IS for that larger groove size. (Beside "8x57IS, the cartridge is also referred to as 7.92x57IS Mauser). I believe the bore size stayed the same - .311" - just the depth of the grooves were increased.
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Nailed it. I load for my 8mm & always look for the is/JS loads.
The 8mm was dumbed down by NA markets: they simply could not have an evil European gun outshooting the .30-06...….
 
Go to the Norma site and see what they offer. Several 196 grain bullets @ nicely over 2,500 fps. I would expect that is pretty much a reasonable limit, with whatever powders they mixed for those loads. You might want to look up their loading data to see what they suggest, but likely their data will be with Norma powders only - not directly transferable to other brands of powder or made elsewhere. It would be expected that a factory run of loaded ammunition would be using a custom mixed batch of powder(s) that might not be available as canister powder or exactly reproducible by the hand loader. Also, it might be significant to know the brand of brass and the type of primer used, as well as the length of barrel used - all can vary your results.
 
OP - I'll save you the trouble of buying the above pamphlet. 46 grains of IMR 4064 is generally considered the maximum load for a 200 gr pill - this should give a velocity of ~ 2600 fps. This is very comparable to 30-06 load data (hint, hint...). Some of the other load data pushes a 200 gr pill to 2700 fps using different powders, but that is likely due to the powder characteristics only - not the Euro consideration.
 
Earlier "8x57" can be problematic - I have two Small Ring 98's (#### on opening, third "safety" lug on the bolt) that have the civilian proof codes from prior to 1912, yet made by DWM which didn't exist until 1897. If you do the mm to inch conversion, that "7.92" actually ciphers out to .3118", so is the bore diameter. Therefore, both the .318/9" and the .323" groove barrels will have the same name. Those early ones have no caliber markings, so I had to slug the bores and cast the chambers to be sure - and they both are 8x57 with the JS bore.
 
Ken waters old reloading manual gives charges up to 50 Grains imr 4064 with a 200gr which in my opinion is a tad to much as ive had pressue signs with those loads. 48grs Was giving very good accuracy and velocity was there @ 2600 fps. Best is to work up starting around 44gr and see what your gun likes. I know that the older husqvarna sights are regulated for the 200gr at approx. 2500fps which is plenty of power for irons.

Ive had good expirence with imr 3031: 46.5gr runs 200 gr @ 2550 with 22inch barrel, 2600 with 24 inch with sub MOA accuracy.

180gr
https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/8x57mm-js-mauser/

200gr
https://load-data.nosler.com/nosler-load-data/pdf/8mm/8x57mm-JS-200gr.pdf

The velocities given by nosler can be taken with a grain of salt. They're usually 100 feet off from my testings.
 
I would try the 200 gr first, with 45 gr and shoot 3 of each in 0.5 gr increments up to 48 gr, to see what groups and how the impact compares to the sight picture.

You want the load that shoots best. Power is not an issue. If you get a stiff bolt lift, stop shooting and back off a full gr.

That rifle is a quality "modern" rifle.
 
OP - just looked in my Speer #14 - page 577 - 8mm Mauser - "We developed the following loads along European guidelines, so these exceed the SAAMI pressure limit; pressures approach 50,000 CUP." (They state that the SAAMI pressure limit for 8x57 is 37,000 CUP.) I have no idea what 50,000 CUP in an 8x57 works out to in PSI - a reference says that C.I.P. 8x57JS - Max. Average Pressure = 3,900 bar = 56,565 PSI. So far as I know, SAAMI and C.I.P. measure pressure at different places of the chamber, so they can get differing numbers from the exact same load, and no idea how Speer does it.

I checked the Vihtavuori loading info and they drive Speer and Nosler 200 grain just over 2,500 fps using their powders - no brass, primer or barrel length given that I could see. Similar to Norma factory numbers. Nosler 7 has 8x57JS loads up to nearly 2,700 fps with 200 grain, including a maximum load of 46.0 grains of IMR 4064 @ 2,638 using Federal case, WLR primer and 24" Lilja barrel. Nosler shows Varget as the most accurate powder tested, but at their starting load level.
 
I'm willing to bet those sights are regulated to European pressures for that cartridge, which will be around 50,000 PSI. Not sure what the CPU value is.

As for the strength of that rifle, I'm willing to bet it's just as strong today as when it was made.

If you decide to load to the specs in North American manuals the pressures they list are around 38,000 PSI. Your sight regulations will give substantially lower point of impact at any range they are marked for.

I use two different powders and they both give the same results in my sporter with appx 23 inch barrel.

IMR4064 is one of my choices and I load 46grains over a CCI250 primer under a 200grain Speer bullet. If I use 200 grain Noslers, I drop the charge by two grains because pressure signs show up with more. Average velocities are appx 2500 fps.

The other powder I use is H4831, NOT IMR4831. It fills the case just enough so it's slightly compressed, which is what H4831 likes best.

These are stout loads, right at the level of RWS, modern factory loads.

Considering when your rifle was made, it should have an IS bore for .323 diameter bullets. But, seeing as it's a factory sporter, it could have been specially ordered with an I bore for .318 bullets. Shooting IS diameter bullets will slightly raise pressures and accuracy will be poor out of an I bore.
 
From what I remember, there were 3 versions of the FN98 action HVA used. First was a military copy with charger cut out and full C receiver ring, 2nd was solid sidewall and full C ring, 3rd and last was the solid sidewall but H broach cut type. The first 2 are somewhat more desirable due to the C ring.
The last version was the only action I ever had that experienced serious receiver lug setback. It was a used 30'06 that didn't show much sign of use. I went to have it rebarreled to 9.3x62 and my Smith noticed it and it is now a paperweight. I ended up using a DUV 98 action with all the FN parts including the bolt. Turned out pretty good.
 
Hitzy said:
From what I remember, there were 3 versions of the FN98 action HVA used. First was a military copy with charger cut out and full C receiver ring, 2nd was solid sidewall and full C ring, 3rd and last was the solid sidewall but H broach cut type. The first 2 are somewhat more desirable due to the C ring.
The last version was the only action I ever had that experienced serious receiver lug setback. It was a used 30'06 that didn't show much sign of use. I went to have it rebarreled to 9.3x62 and my Smith noticed it and it is now a paperweight. I ended up using a DUV 98 action with all the FN parts including the bolt. Turned out pretty good.
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Yes that's right .

Also there were some different models besides the 640 that used FN98 actions, and some model 640 didn't use 98 mauser actions.

Model 146: 9.3x57, 1937-1941. M246: 9.3x62, 1939-1941. Both models military FN98 C-type. Pre-WW2.

M640 made from 1944 to 1953. FN stopped supplying actions when the Nazis occupied Belgium. Early M640 Husqvarna used M38 small ring action then FN98 commercial actions after ww2. Initially C-ring type, changed to H-type 1949.
 
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