Reloading 8x60R Kropatchek
- Thread starter sean69
- Start date
You will need to do some more investigation as to the nomenclature of your cartridge.
The cartridge you are looking for loads for has a couple of different designations. How these came about is anyone's guess and likely has a lot to do with the two different neck lengths commonly encountered.
The Kropatschek rifles are extremely well made. I have only seen those made by Steyr but there are likely other makers out there.
They come in two basic models. National and Colonial. Both models have the normal variants of long rifle/mid size/carbine. The difference between the two models is the addition of an upper handguard on the Colonial models because of the hot climates they were being used in.
Another thing to keep in mind is that these rifles were built during the transition times when nations were upgrading from black powder firearms to smokeless powder firearms. The Kropatschek rifle cartridges can be found with both black powder/paper patched rounds and smokeless powder/paper patched and full metal patch rounds. As far as I can ascertain the longer necks came about after the decision to use smokeless powder was made. These transitional pieces can be very confusing. Finding them with decent bores is the biggest issue. They also have widely diverging bore diameters so you need to decide whether to use cast bullets with paper patches (best for pitted bores), regular cast/lubed/gas check bullets or if you can find the right diameter jacketed bullets. If you're lucky standard .323 diameter bullets will fit nicely.
Another issue is that these rifles have tubular magazines under the barrel. This means that you need to find flat nose bullets or take your chances with round nose. Not advised IMHO although all of the loaded military rounds I have found have 245 grain round nose, cupro nickel jacketed bullets.
The "Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversion" gives information on how to make cartridges from other cases and a single load for the 247 grain bullet. Because of the stoutness of the load I suspect their listed load is for full metal jacket bullets.
The load they list is 56 grains of IMR4350. Their data comes from Hoyem, volume 12.
Most people don't want to go the route I chose. I use paper patched 225grain cast .320 diameter cast lead bullets over a slightly compressed charge of FFG black powder. It's messy but not as hot as the military black powder load and relatively pleasant to shoot. It's also safe. My rifles, as most Kropatschecks were made in the mid 1880s. They are over 125 years old and even though made by one of the most prestigious and meticulous arms makers of the world, care should be used when it comes to ammunition reloading.
There is likely a lot more on the internet that you can find with a bit of searching. There is a video out there showing a fellow loading and shooting paper patched cast lead with smokeless powder and his results which were nothing short of remarkable. My rifles all have excellent bores and shoot extremely well when I do my part. The accuracy capabilities of these rifles is amazing when it is all put together properly.
Check out this site:
http://www.militaryrifles.com/Portugal/PortKrop.htm
The cartridge you are looking for loads for has a couple of different designations. How these came about is anyone's guess and likely has a lot to do with the two different neck lengths commonly encountered.
The Kropatschek rifles are extremely well made. I have only seen those made by Steyr but there are likely other makers out there.
They come in two basic models. National and Colonial. Both models have the normal variants of long rifle/mid size/carbine. The difference between the two models is the addition of an upper handguard on the Colonial models because of the hot climates they were being used in.
Another thing to keep in mind is that these rifles were built during the transition times when nations were upgrading from black powder firearms to smokeless powder firearms. The Kropatschek rifle cartridges can be found with both black powder/paper patched rounds and smokeless powder/paper patched and full metal patch rounds. As far as I can ascertain the longer necks came about after the decision to use smokeless powder was made. These transitional pieces can be very confusing. Finding them with decent bores is the biggest issue. They also have widely diverging bore diameters so you need to decide whether to use cast bullets with paper patches (best for pitted bores), regular cast/lubed/gas check bullets or if you can find the right diameter jacketed bullets. If you're lucky standard .323 diameter bullets will fit nicely.
Another issue is that these rifles have tubular magazines under the barrel. This means that you need to find flat nose bullets or take your chances with round nose. Not advised IMHO although all of the loaded military rounds I have found have 245 grain round nose, cupro nickel jacketed bullets.
The "Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversion" gives information on how to make cartridges from other cases and a single load for the 247 grain bullet. Because of the stoutness of the load I suspect their listed load is for full metal jacket bullets.
The load they list is 56 grains of IMR4350. Their data comes from Hoyem, volume 12.
Most people don't want to go the route I chose. I use paper patched 225grain cast .320 diameter cast lead bullets over a slightly compressed charge of FFG black powder. It's messy but not as hot as the military black powder load and relatively pleasant to shoot. It's also safe. My rifles, as most Kropatschecks were made in the mid 1880s. They are over 125 years old and even though made by one of the most prestigious and meticulous arms makers of the world, care should be used when it comes to ammunition reloading.
There is likely a lot more on the internet that you can find with a bit of searching. There is a video out there showing a fellow loading and shooting paper patched cast lead with smokeless powder and his results which were nothing short of remarkable. My rifles all have excellent bores and shoot extremely well when I do my part. The accuracy capabilities of these rifles is amazing when it is all put together properly.
Check out this site:
http://www.militaryrifles.com/Portugal/PortKrop.htm
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Sean, you are worrying way to much. That bullet will be just fine as long as it has the proper diameter.
This isn't rocket science.
The original charge of black powder was put into the case as a large pellet and the case was formed around it. The Brits did the same thing with 303 Brit ammo with black powder and cordite sticks.
Do some reading.
This isn't rocket science.
The original charge of black powder was put into the case as a large pellet and the case was formed around it. The Brits did the same thing with 303 Brit ammo with black powder and cordite sticks.
Do some reading.
