Reloading: 9mm for CZ 85C pistol

ambishooter

ambishooter

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I am currently looking into the possibility of reloading soon. 9mm for a CZ 85C. My concern is there are multiple diameters available for 9mm. .355, .356 and .357 for Lead Bullets (RN, Conical SWC). I've been using reloads from a club member and just recently, I had some feed problems. I was told that he was using a .357 dia bullet. This same bullet does not have any feeding problem with other pistols. Any recommendation on what diameter should I use?
WOLF which seems to be the closest I can get here in GTA. Bullet Barn in Vancouver can be another option. Any other dealers?
 
Jacketed 9mm is .355". When using cast lead bullets you usually choose a bullet .001" or more in diameter than the groove diameter of your barrel. You can slug your barrel to get this. You basically can't have a lead bullet too big for the barrel. You can however have one thats too big in the case to chamber. Generally store bought cast bullets are made at .001" larger than the jacketed size so I would start with .356" if I were buying for a pistol I had not slugged/measured. I would make a couple dummy rounds and try manually cycling them before loading up a bunch. If they chamber and eject well I would then load 10-20 and try shooting at range and go from there.
 
hk33ka1 said:
Jacketed 9mm is .355". When using cast lead bullets you usually choose a bullet .001" or more in diameter than the groove diameter of your barrel. You can slug your barrel to get this. You basically can't have a lead bullet too big for the barrel. You can however have one thats too big in the case to chamber. Generally store bought cast bullets are made at .001" larger than the jacketed size so I would start with .356" if I were buying for a pistol I had not slugged/measured. I would make a couple dummy rounds and try manually cycling them before loading up a bunch. If they chamber and eject well I would then load 10-20 and try shooting at range and go from there.
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Any idea what is causing my occasional feed problem using .357 bullet in my 85C? This diameter should be fine. Even Bullet Barn suggests this will not cause any problem. What usually happen is the first round will chamber in. It will fire and eject but few succeeding rounds will not chamber properly. Few times, I have to force the round out using a squib rod. This is a live round and this is what concerns me. And my CZ 85C does not have a firing pin block whatsoever which can fire even without a magazine and even with a tap against the hammer as long as a live round is in the chamber. If the OAL is reduced say by 1-2 mm, will this solve the problem? Any bullet dealer you can suggest within GTA?
 
I looked at one of these pistols a the shop yesterday but have never fired or loaded one.

My guess is the bullet is either too large in diameter which then makes the case neck too large when it's seated in it, or the bullet is seated too long and is hitting the rifling while chambering causing trouble chambering and or ejecting/extracting live rounds.

You could try cycling some dummy rounds seated a little shorter.

I had .45 ACP that at 1.25 with 230gr FMJ worked great. I tried 230gr plated at the same length and almost all would jam while chambering and would not fire or extract. I shortened them to 1.20" and they worked fine. At the longer length they worked in my Glock 21 but my SA 1911 had the problem. Of course you need to start at the lower powder charge with a new shorter length if you try this.

Also another example is a certain maker of falling block .38-55 rifles has a tight chamber and a loose .381" or so bore. So you need a fatter than usually .382" lead bullet that may not fit into the chamber while stuck in a case. The .38-55 is wierd in that there isn't really a standard bore size amongst all makers like say .308 Win which usually has a .308" bore. Jacketed bullets are usually .375" and cast is anywhere from .377-.382" depending on the barrel you end up with.
 
CZ's are well known for having a slightly short chamber before the rifling starts. This means that the bullets need to be seated slightly deeper or the nose of the bullet wedges into the rifling before the casing headspaces on the forward lip the way it is supposed to seat.

As a result ammo which shoots fine in any other gun CAN wedge in place and stick hard enough that the slide doesn't quite make it into battery. And that sounds like it is what is happening to you.

The cure is simply to load to a slightly shorter overall length by seating the bullets a little deeper. How deep depends on the nose shape of the bullet. I've had to seat some rather fat nosed 147gn bullets to around 1.09 while nice pointy 124gn bullets are fine at 1.10 to 1.15.

The trick is to strip the top end and use the barrel to chamber check the loads and see if they headspace correctly on the rim or if the bullet wedges against the rifling first.
 
BCRider said:
CZ's are well known for having a slightly short chamber before the rifling starts. This means that the bullets need to be seated slightly deeper or the nose of the bullet wedges into the rifling before the casing headspaces on the forward lip the way it is supposed to seat.
As a result ammo which shoots fine in any other gun can wedge in place and stick hard enough that the slide doesn't quite make it into battery. And that sounds like it is what is happening to you.
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I believe this is what is happening. And likely, a 0.355/0.356/0.357 dia. will not be a problem as long as the OAL is slightly shorter to compensate for the slightly over sized diameter. Any bullet manufacturer or supplier you can recommend? There are very limited source of Hardcast Lead Bullets in Canada. Our club does not allow any jacketed or copperwashed ammo except for a .22 cal only which makes it a little harder since only WOLF ammo is available commercially. The only option is to reload. Thank you guys for the inputs.
 
Williams Arms in Port Perry carries DRG cast bullets. They may make something you could use.
 
I've only loaded up one batch of cast lead. The ones I used were the round nose 124gn from Bullet Barn. They make a 125gn bullet as well but I avoided it due to the little lip it has on it. Just go with the "simple" looking 124

The good news is that my Shadow liked these loads. The cast lead shot consistently tighter groups compared to jacketed. Not a big deal in a match where you're shooting primarily for time. But it makes you look a little better when slow firing for accuracy.

I only did one batch of 500 so far. But the cast option is cheaper enough that I'm going to go with them a lot more for outdoor use in the future.

I don't shoot cast indoors anymore if I can avoid it since I do find that they leave me with that sickly sweet taste at the back of my throat that I've been told indicates some amount of lead intake.
 
The first thing you have to do is to determine if it is your reloading or the gun that is at fault. Buy a box of factory ammo and see if it works fine and if it does you will know that it is your reloads.

I would guess that it has to be that the bullet is seated to far out or most likely you have not crimped the bullet and case enough with your taper crimp die.

Graydog
 
As BCrider mentioned it is a OAL issue, common in CZ pistols.

I ran into the same issue, and the simple way to check your OAL is to remove your barrel and drop the loaded rounds into the chamber to test them.

They should drop in freely, and fall out with little to no effort.

Cheers
M
 
mlehtovaara said:
As BCrider mentioned it is a OAL issue, common in CZ pistols.

I ran into the same issue, and the simple way to check your OAL is to remove your barrel and drop the loaded rounds into the chamber to test them.

They should drop in freely, and fall out with little to no effort.

Cheers
M
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I knew I was in the right forum. Next in line will be the choice of powder and primer. I've been hearing a lot of good things about Bullseye and Titegroup powders. So as CCI and Winchester primers. Any input regarding these? Which powder burns cleaner and faster? What about corrosive stuff? Is this referring to powder or primer or simply concerning military surplus ammo?
 
ambishooter said:
I knew I was in the right forum. Next in line will be the choice of powder and primer. I've been hearing a lot of good things about Bullseye and Titegroup powders. So as CCI and Winchester primers. Any input regarding these? Which powder burns cleaner and faster? What about corrosive stuff? Is this referring to powder or primer or simply concerning military surplus ammo?
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My opinion on primers is use whatever you can find cheapest. Never had an issue with any of them.

Powders in 9mm - I am using PowerPistol. It is a bit loud and flashy but I can use relatively light loads, and not really notice. It burns pretty clean at least compared to some. Again for me it is about what is readily available and cheap. It also meters very well, so it is easier to be consistent with loads.

There are many considerations to make with powders, such as which calibers are you loading, what kind of powder measure you are using, cast or jacketed bullets, what velocities you are trying to accomplish.

If you are just focusing on the one calibre then like I said for me it is about finding something that meters well, and is easy and cheap to find. ;)

A little tip: I am using the same load in both my "plated" 9mm round, as I am in my cast .357 magnum rounds. Easy, and economical.
 
Re powder.. Ramshot Silhouette is ideal for 9mm.. as to your feed problem, check the OAL\chamber as the other reply says.. as a point of reference, I load my 124 FMJ's to 1.130 OAL.. you need to check your bullet in your gun though!
 
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