Reloading basics question

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dd_M14

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I have put through about 300 rounds so far on my poly M305, and reclaimed most of the brass. I am finding more time to visit the range and am considering to start doing reloading. Some of my research is a little confusing or conflicting. Someone at the range said don't even consider reloads for my rifle. Other info I have researched indicates that some equipment (dies) only re-size the neck, and that is not good. Also the .308 vs NATO adds to clound the issue.
I was looking at a Lee kit at the store today and thought best to ask the experts before purchasing.
So... if reloading is ok, what equipment would you recommend and what supplies for basic range shooting would be good.
A little 101 would be helpful for a newbie reloader....
 
I have reloaded for .308 semi-auto's for over fifteen years. Who ever told you not to reload for the M14 Norc copy is wrong. Basic reloading die sets are full length size and that's what you need. I would suggest a factory crimp die (Lee makes them) to crimp the bullet on the cannelure to avoid getting them into the case while hitting the feed ramp. My standard semi-auto load is 150 gr FMJ, F200 primers and 48 gr W748 in IVI cases but any good quality brass will do. Good for fun and general practice shooting.
 
It would be easier to offer 101 help if you would tell us where you are located.
You don't want to neck size for the M14, thats more for the bolt guns. Like miltiades said, a crimp die is a must (cheap too). You don't want to use a bullet of a heavier weight than 150/165gr.

On another note, if you did a search, there are many threads on reloading the M14.
PM sent.
 
Lee 50th kit
Lee 308 dies, full length and neck
lee pocket primer cleaner
rcbs swager (best bit of kit you can own)
hornady cam lock bullet puller (don't waste money on the kinetic ones)
safety glasses and ear plugs
i use lee length gauge and drill to trim brass
i weight each load to make sure its 42gr (depends on powder you use)
NEVER force primer (it will go bang), if it doesn't fit use the swager.
calipers to check OAL
I use Hornady 7th edition reloading manual, there are many others

Plenty of info on youtube as well for 308 reloading.

don't go reload 100's at once, try a few check things work ok and then when you find the right load for what you need then go mad.
 
I've put about 1500 rds through my Norinco M14 since I bought it 4 years ago. Only 5 of those rounds were not reloads. I tried different powders- both 4895's, R15, Varget, 748 and 4064. Settled on 4064 which I thought was most accurate (in my rifle), standard primers (CCI or Win) and 150 gr Hornady FMJ's. Put together on a 30 yr old RCBS reloader special press with standard full length RCBS dies. Last time I figured the cost was about $0.42 per round. Never had a problem. Commercial brass reloaded 5 times then either scrapped or set aside for cast loads in something else.
 
"...don't even consider reloads..." Hi. Whoever told you that is confused to the point of having his head up his bung hole. Start with a copy of The ABC's of Reloading. About $30 in your local gun shop or Amazon.
Like Miltiades says,(much longer than 15 years for me. Not just for my semi'd Winchester M14 either.) you must full length resize every time. Plus seat the primers properly, watch the case lengths and OAL. Rocket science it ain't.
A Lee Beginner's Kit will do nicely. Just don't use the scoops without a scale.
150's will do, but the cartridge loves 165 grain hunting bullets, 168 and 175 grain match bullets. Match bullets aren't cheap though. All using IMR4064, H or IMR4895(close but not the same) or Varget. IMR4064 gives more consistent accuracy than IMR4895. It's good for other cartridges too.
Don't worry about the 7.62 vs .308 thing. Your rifle certainly won't. Of course, your brass has to be boxer primed and if it's milsurp, the primer crimp has to be removed first. One time nuisance thing. No big deal.
Suggest you go to the Reloading forum and read the posts there, as well.
 
Good advice from all the guys above. If you're going to use military cases, you need to remove the primers crimp, as mentioned. I have tried several methods, including the RCBS system that works on the press. However, nothing, and I mean nothing, works as well as a Dillon 600 primer swager. If you're going to use a lot of such crimped brass go for the Dillon. IVI brass in particular can have such hard crimps that by depriming them you may end up piercing the primer instead.

Go for it!
 
I'm guessing he never gave you a reason why you couldn't reload for the m305. That's the single most important thing you can do to save money and improve accuracy. I do it, and not a single problem other than the ones I created myself.
 
Thanks for the info. Your comments make sense, and I will start off slowly as suggested. 150gr, full size die, etc. The Lee kit looked fairly complete.
I plan to use the commercial .308 brass I have now, but I also need to learn a bit about the different types of powder. There are many powder recommendations listed above.
Is 180gr too large to use? I have a box of it that my son pickup up on sale to replace the 3 boxes he used on me. :mad:
BTW located in Southern Ontario. Any clinics happening this summer?
 
you can use the 1 box of 180's , but the advised spectrum is 150-175 with the best accuracy coming from 165-168 - a similar situation exists with the garand- the 180's are just a little too "heavy" as well as hot-they cause undue wear on the oprod unless you put in a sadlak piston - the top load for an m-14 is a 175 grain bullet moving at 2550 fps- the factory load 180 moves out at 2610 fps- that's 5 grains over the max as well as 60 fps- it won't take that kind of abuse
the ideal load is 165-168 smk or sgk moving at about 2600
 
Step # 1

Buy a reloading manual and read it cover to cover before you begin.

I started with Lee's Modern Reloading Second Edition and have since purchased Sierra's, Lymans and Hornady's reloading manuals. You will find everyone has an opinion about which manual is ultimately better. I find I reference different manuals for different things.

Most will have a section dedicated to hand loading for semi-auto rifles (which some manuals have refereed to as advance hand loading).

If you are serious about starting up hand loading, buy at LEAST one hand loading manual, but I would suggest getting three or four eventually.

Edit
----
re-reading your original post, yes you can reload for the M14, but there are a few things (arguably) that I would suggest to be safe.

1) Due to the M14's free-floating firing pin, I would suggest a hard primer to reduce the chance of slam fires, such as CCI primers. Also, make sure your primers are properly seated (recessed about 0.003") again to reduce the chance of slam fires. If you seat too firmly you can crush the primer and the primer will not ignite when hit with a firing pin.
2) Some do neck size for their M14 but I advocate Full Length Re-sizing only. Most information I have referenced indicate the brass is extracted from the M14 before it has fully expanded thus creating a situation where a neck-sized round may not re-enter the chamber.
3) I suggest not reloading a case for the M14 more then 6 times. The brass gets worked so much when full length re-sizing that during extraction the case head could separate leaving most of it inside the chamber. I carry a broken case extractor in my kit for this eventuality.
4).308 vs 7.62 NATO-just hand load for the .308 Win. Don't concern yourself with trying to duplicate NATO rounds or using military brass until you get some experience hand loading. You can however shoot factory NATO rounds through your M14 with no issues.
5) Lee factory crimp your rounds.
6) Learn and understand what thousanths of an inch means (ie 1.142")

I was just like you when I first started 4 years ago. I was confused and had no real concept of what I should get. It was suggested on this site for me to get the following equipment (I have added some to the initial list as I found I actually didn't like loading without at least the equipment below):

- Lee Breech Lock Challenger Kit (containing the Breech Lock Challenger press, off the press hand priming tool, powder thrower, lee cutter, scale, sizing lub, funnel and primer pocket cleaning tool)
- at least 1 pack of extra breech lock bushings for your dies
- .308 Win Case Length Guage to use with the lee cutter
- RCBS chamfer tool (the included lee one in the kit is aweful)
- Lee Pacesetter Full Length Sizing Dies in .308 Win
- Lee .308 Factory Crimp Die
- Lee Decapping die (to deprime as a separate step from re sizing)
- Loading tray for use while charging cases with powder
- Mastercraft Electronic Caliper with Digital Display (from Canadian Tire)
- Lee Loading Manual
- Safety Glasses!!!!! <- most important
- optional - hand drill or battery operated screwdriver for use with the lee cutter
- optional - a tumbler to clean your brass. I started out soaking them in vinigar/water, then rinsing and drying them, but finally caved and bought a tumbler to save headache.
- optional - a little plastic cup to catch the smokeless powder as it comes out of the powder thrower. I originally tried to use the aluminum pan with the scale and the powder went all over the place.
- optional - brasso to polish up your brass so you can show them off at the range ;)

I'm sure there will be people who refute some of what I suggested however, I have loaded accurate ammunition with no accidents for 4 years now. Lee sells the most inexpensive equipment. You can go with RCBS or Lyman or even Hornady and get better quality. After 4 years of loading though, I only have 2 complains for any of the Lee equipment I bought; the dies are prone to rust so be sure to oil them with gun oil before you put them away, and the lee chamfer tool is TERRIBLE (so is the lee scale but it is still usable. I would suggest this to be the first piece of kit you upgrade.)

The M14 is a fun rifle to load for, and I suggest you hunt down is a copy of Handloading for Competition - Section 9 - Reloading for the Match M14 by Glen D. Zediker. I used that as my primary reference when learning the Do's and Do Not's of hand loading for the M14

Hopefully that gave you some information to work with. Good luck and remember to have fun!
 
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Search out info on the CMP (US civilian marksmanship program), and AMU (US Army marksmanship program) for loading info for the M14.
Glen Zediker (US highpower shooter and author) has done some good articles as well that are online for download.

Seek this stuff out direct from the horse's mouth.....
 
I was going to start talking about how great RCBS equipment has been and how great WW748 and CCI primers are, but seeing slushie has covered alot of technical specific to the M-14 and you are new to reloading.............,I give you this 2 cents worth........

Understanding internal ballistics is a good start and this can be found in many mentioned books and loading manuals. A good reloading manual gives great starting and max loads, and some like Speer, in various firearms types, thus showing practical velocities on actual Rifle barrel lenghts and not tight chambered test barrrels of usually longer lenghts.. I have always liked the Speer Manuals myself. Mine are old now now(last one #11 1987) and theres probaly better manuals today.

Remember "ONE powder" on the bench at "ONE time "for "ONE cartridge" being loaded. ALWAYS!!!
NEVER break this RULE!.... NEVER! This will protect life and limb and also your rifle's life.

Always inspect the cartridge block after charging your cases with good lighting, looking into "EVERY case" up and down the line, to insure there is a charge, so you don't get a bullet driven into the barrel and stuck by just primer energy, sans powder!

I have never had an issue, but a handloading friend whos been doing it for over 30yrs, like me, and sticks to all the inspection rules, still missed one round on a 50 round block, and stuck a bullet into the barrel of his HB .243WIN. Its practically imposible to double charge a center fire rifle cartridge like the .308 with appropriate burn rate powders behind normal weight bullets, but you can "not charge" a case by accident.
Remember if there is little or no recoil. STOP! do not cycle a new round manually, nor fire, if it even could cycle automatically because the round gets stuck past the port and before the muzzle.. Inspect the barrel to insure its clear. A full charged round going into a stuck bullet is a disaster.


I don't want to make it sound dangerous to reload, but it needs your undivided attention and respect. If I was going to mess up on the basic principles, it would be while talking to one or more people while reloading. I prefer to make it a solo hobby, and not a spectator sport.
All the tiny issues you will learn and they are many will work out in time, and load specs powders/primer combos that are avaliable from other shooters and listed from reliable M-14 reloading sources will become famaliar with experience and time, but don't break the basic survival rules on the loading bench and you will be on the road to a great hobby, to some as important and enjoyous as the actual shooting itelf! :canadaFlag:
 
i disagree about the 6 times and out business- i've actually HAD a head separation in 4 , with WINCHESTER COMMERCIAL brass- action wouldn't open, split the stock, turned the mag into pieces, recovered the spring, follower, and baseplate, but the tube was a total write-off-
for me now it's 3and out for once fired, and 4 for virgin brass
 
t-star said:
i disagree about the 6 times and out business- i've actually HAD a head separation in 4 , with WINCHESTER COMMERCIAL brass- action wouldn't open, split the stock, turned the mag into pieces, recovered the spring, follower, and baseplate, but the tube was a total write-off-
for me now it's 3and out for once fired, and 4 for virgin brass
Click to expand...

Good rule of thumb T-Star. Annealing may help a bit ,but with max headroom(headspace) rifles, 4 firings total from new ammo, is alot.If theres lots thrown away at your local range , grab them up handload and ditch them after 3 handloads.
 
What do you guy's think about boxer primed military brass? Not the berdan primed stuff.
I know that the primers are crimped but once there out the first time you don't have to crimp them again right?
Also are these military brass thiker walls than the comercial brass?
 
dd_M14 said:
I have put through about 300 rounds so far on my poly M305, and reclaimed most of the brass. .
Click to expand...

Are you shooting commercial or surplus? Not certain if you are aware, but if surplus, check to see if it is Boxer or Berdan primed. (Berdan has 2 little primer holes, Boxer is one hole in the centre)

Berdan primed brass can only be decapped with a special decapper or hydraulic deprimed, and primed with berdan primers.


Satain said:
What do you guy's think about boxer primed military brass? Not the berdan primed stuff.
I know that the primers are crimped but once there out the first time you don't have to crimp them again right?
Also are these military brass thiker walls than the comercial brass?
Click to expand...

You don't need to recrimp the primers.

Military brass is thicker walled than commercial brass, but boxer primed military brass is uncommon. I have some older IVI military brass that seems pretty good.

Note that full length sizing of brass from a regular M14 really works the brass. They tend to have longer spec chambers, set up for 7.62x51, not 308 Win. (yes there is a bit of a difference, 7.62x51 has a slightly longer chamber spec), so the brass gets stretched and then considerably worked when resized back down to 308 spec again. That is one of the big reasons of quick failures of the brass.
 
"...chance of slam fires..." Slam fires are caused by improperly seated primers, usually too high, not the rifle. CCI "milspec" primers are just a brilliant marketing gimmick for magnum primers. You don't need 'em for any battle rifle. Regular large rifle primers work just fine.
"...boxer primed military brass is uncommon..." Um, no. Your IVI brass is boxer primed. So is Lake City, most Radway Green and nearly all other NATO spec brass. Warsaw Pact brass is usually, but not always berdan primed.
Milsurp brass is a bit thicker though. You remove the primer crimp and reduce the powder charge by 10%.
 
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