Reloading BP without dies!?

[CL2000]

Personally, I shoot a few Sniders so have found it useful to own the Lee die set. They also allow you to form your own Snider brass from the raw 24g shells if you don't want to buy preformed ones. And, not surprisingly, fireformed brass from one Snider won't always chamber in another rifle. I've found the 0.60" bullets to be too loose in some fireformed brass and snug enough in others to require a bit of flaring. I've played with using a bit of neck sizing to hold the bullet in place but my best accuracy has been with the bullet held by nothing more than solidified lube. When I use pure beeswax it holds them in fairly well. And on the lube front, be aware that your rifle may or may not shoot well with only soft lube in the grease grooves. Among the group I shoot with, almost everyone dips their bullet nose in a super soft "lube" prior to shooting. Without that your group with .60's may disappoint. Needless to say, this isn't terribly practical for hunting and is totally inaccurate historically.
The most historically accurate Snider cartridges you can build use Lee .575" minies and absolutely require the dies. For someone used to reloading modern cartridges this is a pretty easy way to get started. The bullet is held snugly in place by neck tension and if you use pure beeswax for lube (as with the original Boxer ammo) my results suggest you'll never need to add supplemental lube. I found the bore looked the same after 20 shots as it did after three. With minie bullets the Snider was noted for maintaining accuracy after considerably more than 100 rounds- unusual for BP cartridge rifles at the time. With effort you can get good results from the minies but most gravitate to the .60's almost immediately.
Also note that if you purchase pre-formed brass from X-Ring you will need to find a way to squeeze .575 minies in for fireforming or, perhaps, use round balls after flaring the case a bit. I did all my fireforming with the minies using a full 70 grn load and was able to see results on target with that powder expenditure.

milsurpo

So from experience, can you tell me just how well the bullets hold in the casings with no sizing? how easily can they come free?

And that sounds like a rather expensive practice, I'd need a mold, or at least come across the minies for sale, just to fire form the casings.

 

[Evanguy]

lots of these old rifles have large chambers, you could paper patch the bullet to hold it in the case. just do an extra wrap to get more neck tension if you are hunting with it. or just put a piece of masking tape around the neck of the case that over laps the bullet and twist the end of it. ive used masking tape wrapped cases when there has been a dent in a chamber and the fired brass would get hung up on it, not to hold the bullet it but it would have done that if I needed it too

 

[Snider shooter]

Loading for Sniders isn’t cheap. Cases alone can add up, I have about 120. Dies are about $175-200, a press that will handle large size dies and a mould with handles. A pound of powder doesn’t go far with such a large case.
I also have a set of hand made dies similar to the Lee kits, was made by someone. I found it in a bunch of gun parts I bought. I occasionally use it at the range. They are fun to shoot.

 

[gunlaker]

So from experience, can you tell me just how well the bullets hold in the casings with no sizing? how easily can they come free?

And that sounds like a rather expensive practice, I'd need a mold, or at least come across the minies for sale, just to fire form the casings.

Probably a lot more easily than you'd want them to if you were carrying them out in the bush. If you were to hold them upside down there is a chance the bullet would fall out, particularly if you gave them a shake .

By the way, when I do use neck tension it's only a tiny amount. Partially sized and annealed cases (so they are pretty soft), and I expand with an expander 0.001" under bullet diameter. That uses dies but doesn't work the case much at all, and the bullets definitely won't fall out. But you'd need dies for that unfortunately.

Chris.

 

[CL2000]

Probably a lot more easily than you'd want them to if you were carrying them out in the bush. If you were to hold them upside down there is a chance the bullet would fall out, particularly if you gave them a shake .

By the way, when I do use neck tension it's only a tiny amount. Partially sized and annealed cases (so they are pretty soft), and I expand with an expander 0.001" under bullet diameter. That uses dies but doesn't work the case much at all, and the bullets definitely won't fall out. But you'd need dies for that unfortunately.

Chris.

Well damn than, aint that annoying.

Thanks for the info, great stuff to know and have a clear answer on.

 

[CL2000]

Loading for Sniders isn’t cheap. Cases alone can add up, I have about 120. Dies are about $175-200, a press that will handle large size dies and a mould with handles. A pound of powder doesn’t go far with such a large case.
I also have a set of hand made dies similar to the Lee kits, was made by someone. I found it in a bunch of gun parts I bought. I occasionally use it at the range. They are fun to shoot.

I'm aware cases arent cheap, take care of them and they last a good while.
Dies and the press is what seems to hurt my pocket though.
Not too worried about powder, I use anywhere from 50-100 grains of powder in my muzzle loader, if i remember correctly the manual suggested 100, I said screw it, I'm doing half for range days, so I'm sure a snider or martini would burn the powder just as fast as my muzzle loader.

 

[JP]

I use 65 grs of FFG powder and a .600 bullet in my Snider rifles.

 

[tokguy]

I'm aware cases arent cheap, take care of them and they last a good while.
Dies and the press is what seems to hurt my pocket though.
Not too worried about powder, I use anywhere from 50-100 grains of powder in my muzzle loader, if i remember correctly the manual suggested 100, I said screw it, I'm doing half for range days, so I'm sure a snider or martini would burn the powder just as fast as my muzzle loader.

A trick for you. Smellie sent me this. A tightly rolled tube of light cardboard... I might have a original diagram somewhere...as tall as the shoulder of the cartridge.
Insert it and unroll it...fills up space in the cartridge.
Pretty sure if you did it right it would support the bullet from collapsing inside the case as well

 

[milsurpo]

I'm aware cases arent cheap, take care of them and they last a good while.
Dies and the press is what seems to hurt my pocket though.
Not too worried about powder, I use anywhere from 50-100 grains of powder in my muzzle loader, if i remember correctly the manual suggested 100, I said screw it, I'm doing half for range days, so I'm sure a snider or martini would burn the powder just as fast as my muzzle loader.

So, buy preformed cases from X-Ring, .60" bullets from Jet and some appropriate round balls from somewhere. Find some random object you can use to flare the case mouth enough to force the balls in by hand and figure out how to insert primers in the case without a press. Use a good charge for fire-forming as I've heard a couple of guys suggest they didn't get complete fire-forming using round balls. Finally, buy a block of beeswax at a candle store and a box of Cream of Wheat for filler and you're ready to go. Definitely doable and without investing in moulds, dies, etc. This rare opportunity to get started with a BP cartridge rifle this easily is solely due to X-Ring selling trimmed and sized cases.

milsurpo

 

[tigrr]

How do you maintain compression on the BP without crimping?

 

[Snider shooter]

A trick for you. Smellie sent me this. A tightly rolled tube of light cardboard... I might have a original diagram somewhere...as tall as the shoulder of the cartridge.
Insert it and unroll it...fills up space in the cartridge.
Pretty sure if you did it right it would support the bullet from collapsing inside the case as well

The rolled up card board from cereal boxes is what I have been using, two layers. Drops the powder down to about 55 grs. My bullets sit on the top edge of the card board. I experimented a bit with loads and try amount of crimp. I found a light crimp improved my groups. I found the Lee minies had to be crimped firmly. My 0.595 bullet liked a light crimp.