Reloading Challenger Hulls

[3macs1]

3 macs you are indeed the guru. I had no idea 16 ga Cheddites were a different animal then the 12 ga. Cheddites. (other than ga.) In any event I don't bother with the rather common and mundane 12 bore anyways. So I will be safe with my 16 bore. Question, can a paper base wad (like Federal purple hull 16) migrate forward like the one you illustrated?

Darryl

No Darryl just hate to see good components get put into garbage hulls when top of the line compression formed are available for 5-10 cents each. One of my old shooting buddies drives me nuts. Makes good money, has real expensive guns but will reload every thing he can find in the trash can thinking he is saving money. We have had some scary events happen standing next to him on stands from blocked barrels, poppers and hang fires. Knock on wood I cannot remember the last time I had any of those with my reloads

On the cheddites like anything it seems now there is a cheaper made 12ga hull being used in what they call the promo loads. They are way thinner material on the sides for sure and some had paper bases but now it seems they are all plastic. Those don't hold together well from what many have seen and like the pic
On the Federal purple 16ga I don't use a lot for reloading but use them for hunting loads when I know I am not going to find the hull so one reload and they are gone. I have not seen any bases come up but have seen them break down into pieces normally from getting wet I think . The 16ga cheddites in the 16ga seem to get good reviews and you hear about guys getting 5 and 6 reloads out of them but I think you will find they are being made to a BP specification unlike the 12ga promo which is why they label them the multi hull or what ever they call it
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

I've never loaded this before, so I'm starting from scratch. I've got Remington Gun Club and AA Hulls to work with. However i haven't yet picked my powder, primer or wads. So I'm only restricted by what the suppliers still have in stock.

My thought was CCI 209, or Winchester 209, WAA12L (The claybuster knockoff) and Hodgdon International. But your suggestions would be more than welcome.

Good news to see you now have some good hulls to work with. Let me see what the new lyman book says for the international
99% of my 12 ga reloads are 1oz with 700x win 209 and AA or sts hulls did do a few batches of 7/8 with the win grey wads
I am mainly a 28ga shooter now but did a ton of 12ga over the years
Are the AA hulls the old compression formed or the new HS style


Just a quick look on line go to page 47 etc
http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Hodgdon Basic Manual.pdf

I am probally not good to ask since I am a die hard 700x powder winchester 209 primer man for like forever
and use it for all the 12ga lead target loads. Have a few 12 pounders not opened so have to use it There may be better powders out there now for your international reloads if not looking at the data you can do it with 700x for sure
Hopefully someone will chime in with other combinations they have tried in the 24g load

 

[iduncant]

They're the AA-HS style.

 

[rembolt]

Find yourself a copy of Lymans #5 shotshell reloading hand book or better yet the RCBS hand book of shotshell reloading . both contain data for Win AA CF and HS hulls for 7/8 oz 12ga loads using a variety of powders ,primers and wads from 1200fps on up.

 

[Don gk]

Just to add Winchester AA hulls are 3 piece too now, and some people claim that the base wad can separate in them as well.

Thank you very much for the info on this. I will be avoiding these completely for reloading from now on.

Do follow up on Darryl's question above, based on the information you're providing should one just avoid reloading multi-piece hulls all together? Basically stick to Federal Gold Medal, AA and Remington?

And a second question. To replicate the international 24g load, what would you recommend?

 

[3macs1]

Just to add Winchester AA hulls are 3 piece too now, and some people claim that the base wad can separate in them as well.

For sure and they actually did cause problems with the initial batches of 12ga HS winchester introduced to the point winchester listened and went back to the drawing board and changed them. It is probally about 13 ??? years ago now since that change and it seemed to correct the issue since many reload them and you never hear of any problems. It is a real bear to get the base out of a new one at least in small gauge
I think the ones that had problems did not have the HS stamped on them but the original AA in the square so those must be watched plus the base wad was smooth on the sides when cut open not ribbed and glued or sealed what ever they use to hold them vs the 1st push in design.
My only experience with HS so far has been in the 28ga and 410 and I can say they are excellent hulls in those sizes once you figure out you have to use different wads in the 28 and the 410 which I like downrange
The chances would be slim the OP has some of the original batch of HS since they corrected it right away plus he quoted AA-HS style which must be stamped on what he has. But it should be checked as you say just to be 100% sure

Cheers

 

[beretta boy]

iduncant:

Have a look on line ... www.hodgdon.com in their reloading data guide section ... you should find a number of 7/8 oz. ( I use the same data for 24 gram) loads for
Win AA compression formed plastic hulls, Remington STS (and Gun Club) as well as Federal Gold Medals.
The same type of information is also available from www.aliantpowder.com.

I typically use either Winchester WST powder or Alliant Promo for all my 12 ga. target reloads, and stick with Winchester 209 Primers.
Follow the load data recommendation for wads ... I have found that AA wads work best in AA hulls, Remington in STS and Federal in
GM's. If you're going to use the clones ( eg; Claybuster ), use the right clone for the right case, it seems to pay off, particularly as Federal GM's have a
straight wall case, where the AA's and STS's are tapered. Carefully verify ( weigh scale) that your machine/bushing is throwing the
correct charge consistently for both powder and shot... 5 grains either way on shot is no biggy, however, even half a grain (especially
"over") is cause for correction to a smaller sized bushing on powder.

I do agree with 3macs1 on his recommendations to avoid the Cheddite & Rio type promo hulls & stick with AA's STS's or Federal GM's ...,
however, quite a few guys reload the Remington 'Gun Club' promo shells here quite successfully. No one bothers with the Winchester or
Federal promo hulls, let alone Challenger or Kent.

Challenger, Kent & Gamebore are good factory ammo ... just don't plan on reloading them. That's why the trash bins are full !

 

[thegunnut]

Surprised (unless I missed it) no one has suggested ballistic products manuals for data on cheddite hulls.
See the advantages manual.

 

[beretta boy]

There's a bit of reloading data for Cheddite out there... but the point remains, they're a Riefenhauser process hull with a separate base wad and prone to
problems. ( It only takes one ! )
You can reload them if you want, but I won't ! No problems with compression formed Winchester AA's, Remington STS or Federal GM's.