Reloading Die for 223

Temps

Temps

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Hello all,

Still consider myself new to reloading, I've been doing some pistol loads for the past year and getting ready to start rifle. Namely 223.

I'm using the single stage Lee 50th Anniversary kit. Initially I was going to just pick up the 4 die set which is what I use for pistol however after further reading I'm inclined to think I don't need that.

Is a 2 die set all I need, assuming I will need to full length size each time since I'm planning to reload for my Ruger AR 556 and Mini 14.

What are the fellow reloaders using? What's the opinion on the pacesetter?

Or should I be looking at a different brand of dies altogether?

Thanks in advance,
Temps
 
Temps said:
Hello all,

Still consider myself new to reloading, I've been doing some pistol loads for the past year and getting ready to start rifle. Namely 223.

I'm using the single stage Lee 50th Anniversary kit. Initially I was going to just pick up the 4 die set which is what I use for pistol however after further reading I'm inclined to think I don't need that.

Is a 2 die set all I need, assuming I will need to full length size each time since I'm planning to reload for my Ruger AR 556 and Mini 14.

What are the fellow reloaders using? What's the opinion on the pacesetter?

Or should I be looking at a different brand of dies altogether?

Thanks in advance,
Temps
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I personally like rcbs but anything will work. Personally if you know some older guys who used to reload but don't anymore ask them if they have dies / shell holders or any other reloading equipment.
 
I have always used full length sizing die, bullet seater and a lee factory crimp die and since I use a progressive loader a powder die as well. I have always believed if you are using a semi automatic, you should put some crimp to stop bullets from being pushed back into case. For dies I have just used Redding and Dillon
 
Question, Is a 2 die set all I need? Answer,Yes

"BUT" if you plan on buying any once fired military brass you might need a small base die set along with a "standard" full length die set.
 
I use the 4pc Lee set and use both full length and neck size dies depending on the application.
One thing I have learned after getting a few cases stuck is first pick up some spare pins and second tumble lube the cases.
 
Brocolt said:
for .223 bench shooting is it worth it to buy competition dies? or is this being anal?
Click to expand...

There's a point of diminishing returns but when you look at what the people at the top do and use, if you want to play at that level you need the same toys.
 
dirtybarry said:
There's a point of diminishing returns but when you look at what the people at the top do and use, if you want to play at that level you need the same toys.
Click to expand...

other then personal target shooting / gophers with a .223 and the odd Benchrest match. I don't plan on being in the top. for Rimfire Benchrest sporter class that is a different goal.

My mentor for reloading Benchrest is gone, while I was learning he had a few strokes and all was lost from there. I have forgot most of what he taught me because I took a break from shooting and didn't practice what I was taught.
So these lessons leaked out and have been forgotten. It's a shame as this person was very anal about shooting & reloading. It was so bad he saved targets he shot from 25+ years ago and could prove it.

He would file every target from every test. A great guy to learn from & have coffee with, We had the same passions & hated the same people at work. I had fun working with the old coot, I truly miss him.
He had knowledge that is lost for time.
 
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Thanks for the opinions/advice so far. I'm partial to Lee since that's what I've been using so far with no problems.

Any advice on the pacesetter dies? Do most crimp the rounds lightly for 223.
 
dirtybarry said:
I use the 4pc Lee set and use both full length and neck size dies depending on the application.
Click to expand...

This caught my eye. When would you use one over the other? I've also just started reloading .223 and I had read that you use one OR the other, but no real explanation as to when and why I would want to switch? So far I've just used the full length. How would I know when I should use the neck sizing die?
 
I only use Lee dies and I have the same press.

For reloads I use in my bolt guns, .308, .270, I went with the Lee 4 die set because I wanted to neck-size, as they are only shot in one bolt gun and I do want precision. I haven't started reloading .223, but my AR and XCR are not tack drivers, nor do I need them to be, so I will just get the 3-die set and full length size the brass for both rifles...and I will crimp as they are semis. My.02.
 
grimblyd said:
This caught my eye. When would you use one over the other? I've also just started reloading .223 and I had read that you use one OR the other, but no real explanation as to when and why I would want to switch? So far I've just used the full length. How would I know when I should use the neck sizing die?
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I full length resize the vast majority of my rifle cartridges with the exception of my milsurp rifles like my .303 British with oversized chambers.

The late Jim Hall of the Sierra bullets testing lab and competitive shooter had a humorous saying because he preferred to full length resize his cases.

"The cartridge should fit the chamber like a rat turd in a violin case"

Meaning a full length resized case has more wiggle room to let the bullet to self align with the axis of the bore.

A full length resized case is supported by the bolt face in the rear and by the bullet in the throat of the chamber. And the body of the case has no guiding effect on the bullet and bore.

The Riflesman's Journal
Reloading: Partial Neck Sizing
Germán A. Salazar

"Now the last scenario, a full-length sized case in which the neck is also fully sized. There is clearance at the neck and in the body of the case, the closest fit anywhere is the bullet in the throat. If the neck to bullet concentricity is good (although it needn't be perfect), then the bullet will find good alignment in the throat and the case body and neck will have minimal influence. Let's not forget that the base of the case is supported by the bolt face or the extractor to a certain degree as well; this is yet another influence on alignment. As you can see, there are several points from base to bullet that can have an effect. My procedure is to minimize the influence of those that I can control, namely the case body and neck, and let the alignment be dictated by the fit of the bullet in the throat and to some extent by the bolt's support of the base. Barring a seriously out of square case head, I don't think the bolt can have a negative effect on alignment, only a slightly positive effect from minimizing "case droop" in the chamber. Given that a resized case will usually have a maximum of 0.001" diametrical clearance at the web, this isn't much of a factor anyway.

In conclusion, I believe that allowing the bullet to find a relatively stress-free alignment in the throat by full length sizing (including the neck) and turning necks to enhance concentricity gives the bullet the best probability of a well-aligned start into the rifling. Additionally, I place a high value on easy bolt operation and true full length sizing helps that quite a bit. I favor easy bolt operation as a prone shooter because I keep the rifle in my shoulder for the entire string and struggling with the bolt not only can shift the buttplate (always with adverse consequences) but it is also a distraction from my attention to mirage and wind flags which ideally occupies all of the non-aiming time".


Any case that doesn't have uniform case wall thickness can warp when fired and when neck sized the bullet will be out of alignment with the bore. Full length resizing reduces the chances of the case misaligning the bullet with the bore.

For the average shooter I think full length resizing with minimum shoulder bump is the better method. If you look at Accurateshooter.com you will see the majority of competitive shooters full length resize their cases. (the rat turd in the violin case) ;)
 
Bigedp51 is right about "The cartridge should fit the chamber like a rat turd in a violin case"

I am convinced that this is the primary reason wht the Swiss K31 rifle is so accurate using the military GP11 ammo. Compare an unfired GP11 cartridge to a fired case and "rat turd/violin case" is a fitting and very apt description...
 
I've had good results with an RCBS FL 2-die set. Also have the Lee necksizer and factory crimp die - results have been good with FL so I haven't felt the need to further experiment. Necksizing will be easier on your brass but unsure if this is best practice for semis and many people use the FCD with ammunition for semis.

Loaded with the Lee Loader at first (neck sized) and results have been better with FL.
 
Temps said:
Thanks for the opinions/advice so far. I'm partial to Lee since that's what I've been using so far with no problems.

Any advice on the pacesetter dies? Do most crimp the rounds lightly for 223.
Click to expand...

2nd piece of unsolicited advice: if all you have is Lee dies stay with Lee dies. That way every thing is the same. I have such a variety of dies and there are slight differences. That really don't matter but.

I think and I may be wrong but I believe that the only difference between the pacesetter and standard lee die sets is the inclusion of the factory crimp die. You can to the best of my knowledge crimp with the bullet seating die in both. I use a taper crimp on my semi auto stuff but everything else I don't bother to crimp.
 
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