Reloading Fire Extinguisher
- Thread starter kgwalsh12
- Start date
I had a fire in my loading room, on the carpeted floor. It was scary because there were several kegs of powder on the floor. I emptied 3 fire extiguishers, but the fires kept coming back. too much powder in the carpet. Finally i got it with water.
my floor is now painted concrete and gets swept after each session.
My son has a loadng room where he was loading large quantities of 50BMG. Lots of powder on hand. Powder burns very hot. If a drum of powder goes up, you can die - quickly.
here is what we do. A 5 gallon jerry can of water is on the floor. The lid is sitting on the big opening, but not screwed on. If a fire breaks out, the drill is to tip the can and run. The water will drown a fire on the floor. if the fire is on the bench, the can be picked up and dumped.
Never allow your self to store any powder between you and the door. You need a safe direction to run. Powder fires have been fatal in canada.
my floor is now painted concrete and gets swept after each session.
My son has a loadng room where he was loading large quantities of 50BMG. Lots of powder on hand. Powder burns very hot. If a drum of powder goes up, you can die - quickly.
here is what we do. A 5 gallon jerry can of water is on the floor. The lid is sitting on the big opening, but not screwed on. If a fire breaks out, the drill is to tip the can and run. The water will drown a fire on the floor. if the fire is on the bench, the can be picked up and dumped.
Never allow your self to store any powder between you and the door. You need a safe direction to run. Powder fires have been fatal in canada.
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- High River, Alberta
Powder contains its own oxygen so its going to be hard to put out.
The powder won't be burning long before its burned itself out and its everything else that you are worrying about or you want the fire out before it gets to the powder. Either way an regular household extinguisher would work. Get a good sized one.
The powder won't be burning long before its burned itself out and its everything else that you are worrying about or you want the fire out before it gets to the powder. Either way an regular household extinguisher would work. Get a good sized one.
"Either way an regular household extinguisher would work. Get a good sized one. "
My experience fighting a fire in my loading room was that fire extinguishers did nothing. I was fighting the loose powder on my carpeted floor. I would have the same problem with loose power on my benchtop.
Based on my EXPERIENCE, not theory, water will drown a powder fire. Cleanliness is good, too.
As I write this, I note the fact that the ceiling tiles above my loading bench are missing and the wooden floor joists are charred. That was another fire.
An electrician took a ciggarette into the loading room (against my explicit intructions) and put it down on the powder hopper of my Dillon (over a pound of WW231). That home-made roman candle caught the ceiling on fire. he burned his arm and ran out of the house. My wife heard the rukus, came down stairs, and fought the fire with a fire extuigisher.
My experience fighting a fire in my loading room was that fire extinguishers did nothing. I was fighting the loose powder on my carpeted floor. I would have the same problem with loose power on my benchtop.
Based on my EXPERIENCE, not theory, water will drown a powder fire. Cleanliness is good, too.
As I write this, I note the fact that the ceiling tiles above my loading bench are missing and the wooden floor joists are charred. That was another fire.
An electrician took a ciggarette into the loading room (against my explicit intructions) and put it down on the powder hopper of my Dillon (over a pound of WW231). That home-made roman candle caught the ceiling on fire. he burned his arm and ran out of the house. My wife heard the rukus, came down stairs, and fought the fire with a fire extuigisher.
Class A fires = ordinary combustables like wood, carpet, paper ect.
Class B fires = flammable liquids
Class C fires = electrical
Class D fires = Metal (like magnesium,, or graphite powder)
Class K fires = Kitchen (cooking oils, fats ect.)
Get one that is rated for ABC, with dry chemical as the extinguishing agent, and go as big as you can.
Class B fires = flammable liquids
Class C fires = electrical
Class D fires = Metal (like magnesium,, or graphite powder)
Class K fires = Kitchen (cooking oils, fats ect.)
Get one that is rated for ABC, with dry chemical as the extinguishing agent, and go as big as you can.
Yes but CO2 works by choking off the fires oxygen supply.
If you have a small enclosed reloading room, the CO2 will also work to choke off YOUR oxygen supply.
CO2 first, then ABC. None will have an affect on burning powder.
CO2 is for small stuff, when you don't want to make a mess. ABC will smother the fire and make a terrible mess, but prevents the fire from restarting if there is still heat present which would otherwise ignite the fuel once oxygen is again available, post CO2.
If powder gets going, leave immediately, and if small enough, and you feel secure in your abilities, return and fight the secondary fires.
CO2 is for small stuff, when you don't want to make a mess. ABC will smother the fire and make a terrible mess, but prevents the fire from restarting if there is still heat present which would otherwise ignite the fuel once oxygen is again available, post CO2.
If powder gets going, leave immediately, and if small enough, and you feel secure in your abilities, return and fight the secondary fires.
outoftowner
Regular
- Location
- Medicine Hat, AB
Please do explain the fallout of that situation. Did the electrician pay up or what?
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- High River, Alberta
You are right. I was trying to say that an extinguisher isn't going to do much to the powder but you still might want one to keep everything else from burning.
The bucket of water will work by preventing the heat from expanding enough to keep the fire spreading and getting to more fuel. If there is a lot of powder going though there will just be a lot of steam to go with the smoke and hopefully everyone is out of the house by the time it gets that serious. Personally I don't really want a pail of water in my gun room all the time but I suppose if its capped it shouldn't be a source of much moisture.
The best defense is always going to be good housekeeping and vigilence in keeping sources of ignition out of a reloading room.
You can buy water extinguishers for A type fires. The ones with foam are good for A and B fires. They don't mix well with electricity or grease fires. I personnally keep a 20L wildfire pisspack in the basement filled with water and foam and ABC extinguishers upstairs.
If really worried about it, you could set up a dry sprinker system in the area that you can activate in case of fire.
The first fire started because I decided to do a little soldering. A drop of solder hit the carpet (powder) and started to burn. the fire kept spreading through the carpet, even though i kept emptying fire extruishers on it. the heat and fumes were getting pretty bad and the water I used to stop the fire was probably my last chance to stop it.
The jerry can lid is on the can, but not screwed down. The water does not evaporate, but if the can is kicked over in an emergancy, it will drown the floor fire. It is a way of fighting a fire, after I have to bail out of the room.
After the electrian fire, his wife called the next day to ask if there would be any point in sending a bill. "no"
She asked if he could come back for his tools. i said i would leave them on the front steps, but i did not want to see or talk to him.
Apparently he helped himself to a few drinks at my bar before starting the electrical work. Between his wife and the burns I think he got punished for his stupidity.
Before he started the job I told him "Don't smoke in the loading room. I don't want you to blow up my house." I wonder what part of that he did not understand??
The jerry can lid is on the can, but not screwed down. The water does not evaporate, but if the can is kicked over in an emergancy, it will drown the floor fire. It is a way of fighting a fire, after I have to bail out of the room.
After the electrian fire, his wife called the next day to ask if there would be any point in sending a bill. "no"
She asked if he could come back for his tools. i said i would leave them on the front steps, but i did not want to see or talk to him.
Apparently he helped himself to a few drinks at my bar before starting the electrical work. Between his wife and the burns I think he got punished for his stupidity.
Before he started the job I told him "Don't smoke in the loading room. I don't want you to blow up my house." I wonder what part of that he did not understand??
I burned a 1/2 pound of left over powders...The heat is awe inspiring!
Even a cap full contains an unbelievable amount of heat.
A couple of breaths of burning carpet and the fire will be the least of your worries. Synthetic carpet is evil death when its on fire.
Even a cap full contains an unbelievable amount of heat.
A couple of breaths of burning carpet and the fire will be the least of your worries. Synthetic carpet is evil death when its on fire.
I am not a fire expert, but I had a 3 week training in puting out fire as I used to be a sailor and actually had to use it twice in real time life threathening situations.
Some notions:
Fire triangle: to burn a fire need 3 things :
1-A combustible (fuel, wood, paper, smokless powder)
2-An oxidizing agent (Oxygen)
3-Heat
A fire spread because the heat form the original fire turn more and more material into combustible. That mean the heat from the fire will turn otherwise inert material into combustible (by heating it and thus turning it in gaz) and thus feed the fire wich will grow bigger and hotter and this will in turn turn more inert material into more combustible... pretty much until someone break this reaction or until there's not much more left of your house than the concrete foundation.
So there are basically 3 ways to put out a fire, wich is taking out anyone of the 3 part of the triangle.
In your case smokeless powder does contain it's own oxidizing agent and it's own combustible so the only thing you can use is the heat element.
So in case of a smokeless powder what you need to do is reduce the heat.
Now about the extinguiser:
They are taylor to the type of fire you can fight, but are not created equals...
They are classified A, B, C, D and K for the type of fire they can effectively fight, let's take out D and K wich are respectively for metal fire (D) and kitchen/fat/oil fire (K)
A: Ordinary solid fire (aka paper, wood, etc..)
B: flamable liquid and gas
C: electrical fire (meaning A, but you can't use water since it would result in electrocution...)
Now most household extinguisher are rated ABC, meaning you can effectively use them against any fire of the A, B or C type. That being said they are usually made of Dry chemical meaning that the basic principle is that on a molecular level it separate the fuel from the oxygen therefore breaking the fire triangle (combustible-Oxidizing agent aka oxygen-heat). Now this is your all-purpose extinguisher, it can do pretty much anything but is definatly better for some than others. In this case the dry chemical is usally better for B and C fire than for A, but it will still fight A fire quite effectivelly.
CO2 extinguisher won't work since the principle is to deprive the fire from oxidizing agent (oxygen) by replacing normal air with CO2 this mean that it won't work in well ventilated area (hello foam extinguisher) and that it certainly won't work with smokeless powder wich is by definition a mix of Combustible and oxidizing agent so depriving it of oxygen is not gonna do anygthing (although it MIGHT help put out subsequent fire, but still non conclusive...)
Water extinguisher (A) is just water with presure, it will trow water on the fire and thus reduce it's temperature. Water extinguisher are also quite easy to operate and recharge. Usually recharging it is just a matter of filling it with water and putting pressure in it with a compressor.
So my (uneducated guess) would be an ABC because it's handy in all sorts of situation and mostly a Water extinguiser, beause althought I never fought a smokless powder fire, it appers to me that heat is the weakest link in this fire and thus water would be the most appropriate response.
Then again I am no specialist.
Etienne
Some notions:
Fire triangle: to burn a fire need 3 things :
1-A combustible (fuel, wood, paper, smokless powder)
2-An oxidizing agent (Oxygen)
3-Heat
A fire spread because the heat form the original fire turn more and more material into combustible. That mean the heat from the fire will turn otherwise inert material into combustible (by heating it and thus turning it in gaz) and thus feed the fire wich will grow bigger and hotter and this will in turn turn more inert material into more combustible... pretty much until someone break this reaction or until there's not much more left of your house than the concrete foundation.
So there are basically 3 ways to put out a fire, wich is taking out anyone of the 3 part of the triangle.
In your case smokeless powder does contain it's own oxidizing agent and it's own combustible so the only thing you can use is the heat element.
So in case of a smokeless powder what you need to do is reduce the heat.
Now about the extinguiser:
They are taylor to the type of fire you can fight, but are not created equals...
They are classified A, B, C, D and K for the type of fire they can effectively fight, let's take out D and K wich are respectively for metal fire (D) and kitchen/fat/oil fire (K)
A: Ordinary solid fire (aka paper, wood, etc..)
B: flamable liquid and gas
C: electrical fire (meaning A, but you can't use water since it would result in electrocution...)
Now most household extinguisher are rated ABC, meaning you can effectively use them against any fire of the A, B or C type. That being said they are usually made of Dry chemical meaning that the basic principle is that on a molecular level it separate the fuel from the oxygen therefore breaking the fire triangle (combustible-Oxidizing agent aka oxygen-heat). Now this is your all-purpose extinguisher, it can do pretty much anything but is definatly better for some than others. In this case the dry chemical is usally better for B and C fire than for A, but it will still fight A fire quite effectivelly.
CO2 extinguisher won't work since the principle is to deprive the fire from oxidizing agent (oxygen) by replacing normal air with CO2 this mean that it won't work in well ventilated area (hello foam extinguisher) and that it certainly won't work with smokeless powder wich is by definition a mix of Combustible and oxidizing agent so depriving it of oxygen is not gonna do anygthing (although it MIGHT help put out subsequent fire, but still non conclusive...)
Water extinguisher (A) is just water with presure, it will trow water on the fire and thus reduce it's temperature. Water extinguisher are also quite easy to operate and recharge. Usually recharging it is just a matter of filling it with water and putting pressure in it with a compressor.
So my (uneducated guess) would be an ABC because it's handy in all sorts of situation and mostly a Water extinguiser, beause althought I never fought a smokless powder fire, it appers to me that heat is the weakest link in this fire and thus water would be the most appropriate response.
Then again I am no specialist.
Etienne
I kind of forget to mention, but in the end the best defense would still be to have a very clean workspace. Smokeless powder burn very fast and if there is just metal and concrete around (no to combustible to keep the fire up), it might die by itself.
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
Some comment here. ABC will not extinguish powder fires. Water works because it cools the powder down enough to stop the oxidization process. If you can dump enough Co2 onto it, it will work, but again, only because it cools it down, and in a confined area could asphixiate you. ABC will prevent other material from burning due to the fire. Basiclly, once smokless powder starts burning, unless you can lower the temperature below the combustion/oxidization point, its just gonna keep going. I have a laminate floor in my loading room, and i keep it swept. All blowing an extinguisher onto burning powder on it would do is spread it around the room.
Anyways, hopefully i never have to deal with it.
Anyways, hopefully i never have to deal with it.
i am a certified fire extinguisher technician, i did it for a good portion of my 20's.
i have a pretty good supply at my disposal including a Flag 20lb ABC stored pressure dry chem.
my 'go to' extinguisher is a Flag 4.75lb FE36 clean agent. i would sooner not spray a dry chem around my house if i dont have to. i would rather use a gas that evaporates into the air than powder that cakes onto everything.
FE36 is the replacement for halon. it is expensive, but worth it.
i have a pretty good supply at my disposal including a Flag 20lb ABC stored pressure dry chem.
my 'go to' extinguisher is a Flag 4.75lb FE36 clean agent. i would sooner not spray a dry chem around my house if i dont have to. i would rather use a gas that evaporates into the air than powder that cakes onto everything.
FE36 is the replacement for halon. it is expensive, but worth it.
i have been a firefighter for the last 20 years, worked with all kinds of fire extinguishers, best advice, keep your reloading room clean, better to store powder in small 1 lb can, powder of abc class, will not help you much, since gun powder does not need oxygen to burn, it is almost a class d fire.
Since most of us load our cartridges in the basement, i stongly suggest that we keep a garden hose pluged to the water system on hand, does not take much room, and may save your life.
A class A fire portable fire extinguisher ( 2.5 gallons )with class A Foam,wetting agents, will work best.
If all fails, close the door, go outside with your family members and call the fire department.Do not go back inside.
Since most insurance contract dont cover that kind of risk, i personnaly keep primers and powder in the garden shed.
It is heated of course, and doesnt have much temperature variation.If i a fire ever happens, i dont really care losing the shed.
Please be safe.
Since most of us load our cartridges in the basement, i stongly suggest that we keep a garden hose pluged to the water system on hand, does not take much room, and may save your life.
A class A fire portable fire extinguisher ( 2.5 gallons )with class A Foam,wetting agents, will work best.
If all fails, close the door, go outside with your family members and call the fire department.Do not go back inside.
Since most insurance contract dont cover that kind of risk, i personnaly keep primers and powder in the garden shed.
It is heated of course, and doesnt have much temperature variation.If i a fire ever happens, i dont really care losing the shed.
Please be safe.
You guys are starting to worry me. Makin' it sound like powder fires are super common.
How much of a risk is it, really, if you don't smoke around your reloading bench? Have these fires even spontaneously happened, or been caused by static electricity?
How much of a risk is it, really, if you don't smoke around your reloading bench? Have these fires even spontaneously happened, or been caused by static electricity?
