I use ball powders extensively, but in every case use a full or very close to full case, and a magnum primer. I find BL-C(2) to meter very well, and is of high enough density that I can get a lot in a case and thus I can often obtain a high MV with excellent accuracy. I have not used it in the 35 Whelen, but only because RL15 and RL17 work so well, and I have many other guns to play with. When I try it, it will be with a full case over a magnum primer.
Reloading for .35 Whelen
- Thread starter asphalt599
- Start date
I worked up some loads last year for the father-in-laws 750 using 225 partitions, remington brass, and RL15. I used CCI 250 mag primers, and found that it liked full power loads the best, (60 grain range) for 1-1.5" groups. However, these loads would have the primers all pushed out of the case. Case expansion showed they were okay, but I couldn't figure out why the primers were doing that. This was using FL sized brass. I switched to 210M primers, and the issue went away, however, the accuracy was not as good (2-2.5" groups). I believe I was getting a pressure spike with the 250's. The thing is that the FPS did not change when going from the magnum primers to the std. I also found that seating depth improved the groups, changing them .005" at a time.
The best shooting loads with the CCI 250's at the highest charges also did not cycle the best. The bolt would catch the mouth of the case before it would clear, jamming in the action, or creasing the neck. Lower power loads cycled without these issues, but were less accurate. I settled on the loads which cycled every time, not the most accurate. They were still 2600 fps in the 22" barrel, and ES of 5!
If shooting strictly moose, elk, bear, and the odd deer, I would load 250 partitions. Here is a recommendation I was given.
In the good old Whelen. The 225 grain Partition is one of the poorer performers of the Partition line due to its extremely low SD. If it hits major bone on game weighing around 600kg or 1300lb, it will tumble and lose its rear core, time and time again. Forget about velocity and go for SD. Very few people understand just how effective the .358’s can be and just how much they differ from other bores. As an an example, the .308 produces a great deal of hydrostatic shock on medium game at impact velocities above 2600fps, while the 35 does the same- way down at 2200fps. The .35 has no trouble imparting energy as long as the velocity is reasonable so all you have to do is try to keep impact velocities above 1800fps to promote wide wounding. The 250 grain Partition driven at 2400fps will keep you out of mischief out to 325 yards on larger deer and Moose. My other favourite is the Woodleigh round nose, it is very emphatic for sure. Things to note about the Woodleigh are that the RN expands a lot faster than its pointed counterpart and tends to dump a lot more energy (actually, the same goes if you compare the Hornady SP and RN on deer). The Pointed (PP) bullet is a very deep penetrator but is not the be all and end all.
I believe the Canadian rep is out of most stock at the moment but I bet he has some .35 cal bullets somewhere. I have used the 225gr RN woodleigh on wild cattle. It is quite acceptable but I do prefer more SD. My neighbour (farmer) uses the .35 Whelen on everything, the way most people use a .270. I gave him my test rifle after he fell for it. Can’t believe he has the 200 grain Hornady zeroed and set up for 300-400 yard shooting of goats in his pine plantation, the 225gr GK for deer and pigs, a swag of my old obsolete 250 grain Barnes X bullets for wild cattle. I used to use the Whelen out to 250 yards, never thought I would see one set up for 0 to 400 yard shooting. Bullet drop is two feet from his zero which he rightly describes as being “much like a .308”. If you really like this caliber for Moose, perhaps also consider a bolt action in the future as a long term proposition- either the Whelen or .358 Norma (just use 338 Win mag brass). There are a host of good donor actions for such a project out there, cheap actions like the Howa stainless (good in the snow) etc. A good, accurate bolt action .358 can help stretch range potential so that you don’t feel handicapped when you break out of the Alders and see your quarry across a valley 250-300 yards away.
Should mention, if you want to try the Woodleigh bullets and can’t get them from your rep, you can purchase Woodleigh bullets at a good price from Queensland Gun Exchange in Australia. They will sort the paper work and freight.
The best shooting loads with the CCI 250's at the highest charges also did not cycle the best. The bolt would catch the mouth of the case before it would clear, jamming in the action, or creasing the neck. Lower power loads cycled without these issues, but were less accurate. I settled on the loads which cycled every time, not the most accurate. They were still 2600 fps in the 22" barrel, and ES of 5!
If shooting strictly moose, elk, bear, and the odd deer, I would load 250 partitions. Here is a recommendation I was given.
In the good old Whelen. The 225 grain Partition is one of the poorer performers of the Partition line due to its extremely low SD. If it hits major bone on game weighing around 600kg or 1300lb, it will tumble and lose its rear core, time and time again. Forget about velocity and go for SD. Very few people understand just how effective the .358’s can be and just how much they differ from other bores. As an an example, the .308 produces a great deal of hydrostatic shock on medium game at impact velocities above 2600fps, while the 35 does the same- way down at 2200fps. The .35 has no trouble imparting energy as long as the velocity is reasonable so all you have to do is try to keep impact velocities above 1800fps to promote wide wounding. The 250 grain Partition driven at 2400fps will keep you out of mischief out to 325 yards on larger deer and Moose. My other favourite is the Woodleigh round nose, it is very emphatic for sure. Things to note about the Woodleigh are that the RN expands a lot faster than its pointed counterpart and tends to dump a lot more energy (actually, the same goes if you compare the Hornady SP and RN on deer). The Pointed (PP) bullet is a very deep penetrator but is not the be all and end all.
I believe the Canadian rep is out of most stock at the moment but I bet he has some .35 cal bullets somewhere. I have used the 225gr RN woodleigh on wild cattle. It is quite acceptable but I do prefer more SD. My neighbour (farmer) uses the .35 Whelen on everything, the way most people use a .270. I gave him my test rifle after he fell for it. Can’t believe he has the 200 grain Hornady zeroed and set up for 300-400 yard shooting of goats in his pine plantation, the 225gr GK for deer and pigs, a swag of my old obsolete 250 grain Barnes X bullets for wild cattle. I used to use the Whelen out to 250 yards, never thought I would see one set up for 0 to 400 yard shooting. Bullet drop is two feet from his zero which he rightly describes as being “much like a .308”. If you really like this caliber for Moose, perhaps also consider a bolt action in the future as a long term proposition- either the Whelen or .358 Norma (just use 338 Win mag brass). There are a host of good donor actions for such a project out there, cheap actions like the Howa stainless (good in the snow) etc. A good, accurate bolt action .358 can help stretch range potential so that you don’t feel handicapped when you break out of the Alders and see your quarry across a valley 250-300 yards away.
Should mention, if you want to try the Woodleigh bullets and can’t get them from your rep, you can purchase Woodleigh bullets at a good price from Queensland Gun Exchange in Australia. They will sort the paper work and freight.
No - had em out last fall moose hunting in my 350WSM (35Sambar) but didn't get to pull the trigger. Here no one "needs" more than a good 250 in a 35Whelen IMO. But I like trying different bullets. Got a bull tag for next month so can try again if I decide to use em.
Good recommendation - especially if add in grizz to deal with. But to date I don't share your very negative assessment of the 225gr version - many report using it with good results. So far I have been using mainly 250s myself when hunting with 35Whelen - shot only paper with 225s. Note Greg's "Final Thoughts" here - http://35cal.com/35bullet_study/35bullet_study1.html
Finally for some .35 whelen loaded up. Ended up with 250gr Hornady SP's. Used R15 with a fairly warm load. My book showed a fair bit lower than the 59gr you guys had mentioned so I wend a bit below the max for my book.
What is the recoil like with 250's in a .35 whelen? I'm not overly worried about it ...more just curious.
What is the recoil like with 250's in a .35 whelen? I'm not overly worried about it ...more just curious.
Recoil usually easily manageable - think of it as a jacked up 30-06
which it kind of is. Roughly speaking a 30-30 at 11 ft/lbs, 30-06 at 20 ft/lbs and a 35whelen at 28 ft/lbs free recoil. Your M750 semi action along with it's thick Limbsaver will soak up recoil well - felt recoil is lessened. You didn't say how many grains of ReL15 you used. But if you followed the new Alliant recipe of only 54grs then your velocity and recoil will likely be much less than classic 35Whelen levels of 250s at 2400MV.
You can compare two loads relative free recoil here - http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
- Location
- Saskatchewan
I shot two bull elk with my .35 Whelen this week, both were almost identical spike bulls, both were shots through the lungs, both were at about 100 yds, both were Hornady 250gr. bullets. I load my Whelen with RL15 to 2500fps out of a custom 1:12 twist 24" barrel.
The first one was an "assist" of a bull my friend had shot through the lungs with a 7mm-08 about a minute before. I saw the bull trotting along and knew it was hit, and shot him high in the mid rib section. The Hornady 250 RN broke a rib going in and took out a chunk of the bottom of the backbone, and broke a rib on the way out. Bullet exited. Bull died on the spot.
The second bull was yesterday, he was walking towards me, angling to my right. 250gr. Spire point bullet hit at the point of the shoulder, broke the humerus, broke a rib, traversed the lungs, and broke the third rib on the opposite side.
Bull dropped on the spot, skidded on his chest for about 15yds. and died. Bullet was found under the hide on the opposite side, perfectly mushroomed to just below the cannelure.
The bullet looked identical to the two I pulled from another bull elk I shot last year with the RN version. Both were found under the hide after breaking ribs in and out, at about 170 yds.
I used to use the more expensive Speer Grand Slam bullets and was happy with them, but based on recent results, I think I will continue to use the Hornady 250 Round Nose or Spire point for elk and moose hunting with full confidence in their terminal performance.
The first one was an "assist" of a bull my friend had shot through the lungs with a 7mm-08 about a minute before. I saw the bull trotting along and knew it was hit, and shot him high in the mid rib section. The Hornady 250 RN broke a rib going in and took out a chunk of the bottom of the backbone, and broke a rib on the way out. Bullet exited. Bull died on the spot.
The second bull was yesterday, he was walking towards me, angling to my right. 250gr. Spire point bullet hit at the point of the shoulder, broke the humerus, broke a rib, traversed the lungs, and broke the third rib on the opposite side.
Bull dropped on the spot, skidded on his chest for about 15yds. and died. Bullet was found under the hide on the opposite side, perfectly mushroomed to just below the cannelure.
The bullet looked identical to the two I pulled from another bull elk I shot last year with the RN version. Both were found under the hide after breaking ribs in and out, at about 170 yds.
I used to use the more expensive Speer Grand Slam bullets and was happy with them, but based on recent results, I think I will continue to use the Hornady 250 Round Nose or Spire point for elk and moose hunting with full confidence in their terminal performance.
Recoil usually easily manageable - think of it as a jacked up 30-06
You didn't say how many grains of ReL15 you used. But if you followed the new Alliant recipe of only 54grs then your velocity and recoil will likely be much less than classic 35Whelen levels of 250s at 2400MV.
You can compare two loads relative free recoil here - http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
I used 53.4 grains of R15. The max (in red) in my Hornady book was 55.1 grains. I went a little bit more than the next load down. Should be a little over 2300ft/sec. The loads for 200 gr bullets were a lot higher. I'll see what happens and work up from there.
I have loaded up to 59grs of RL15 in my 750 with no issues. My 750 I had before I only shot factory Rem 250's SP out of it and it cycled/shot great. When I get some time I'll load some 250's with 56-57 grs and head to the range to see how it works out. Man I'm running out of time............
