Reloading for a Berdan 2

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Gryphus6

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Hello,

I've got a Berdan 2 lined up from an estate auction that's in firing condition but ammo is quite scarce. does anyone have any tips and tricks for loading of 10.75x58mmR? I've never done any loading but I've got a buddy who is very experienced. Any tips or advice is appreciated.

Thanks!
 
CH4D makes dies. Slug your bore before ordering a mold. Original ammunition was paper patched so you'll need to decide if you want to go that route or order a grease groove mold. You can make cases from .50-110 Winchester brass which is currently produced by Starline. Post some photos when it arrives, it's always nice to see a Berdan.
 
"slugging a bore" - there might be some variation in how guys do that - consider in old days that you drilled a hole down the centre of the barrel, then honed that - that became the tops of the riflings - "bore diameter". Then a cutting tool was often inserted down that hole and the "grooves" were cut out - to "groove" or "bullet" diameter. English barrel makers often used an odd number of grooves - 3 or 5 - very convoluted to measure to get accurate groove diameter - many North American made barrels tend to use an even number of grooves - 4 or 6 - simply measure from one "groove" across the slug to other side to get diameter - the Idea was that you wanted the bullet to pretty much fill up the "groove diameter" - that would cause the rifling to engrave into the bullet sides and impart "spin" to the projectile as it went down the bore. In theory, there should be a section ahead of the case cartridge, but before the riflings - called the "throat" - should be same size as the grooves - sometimes is, sometimes is not. Old school guy Veral Smith used to be very focused to get the projectile to fit that throat - he sold "throat packing" kits for measuring that diameter. So, you clean and lightly oil the bore, then force a dead soft lead piece through that barrel - results in a "slug" of that barrel grooves - you can measure that with micrometer or other precision instrument to come up with a "groove diameter" for that barrel. Or just do the throat, or the muzzle - a full length "slug" will show you the smallest diameter that it passed through - that may or may not be similar diameter to the throat or the muzzle.
 
Easiest way to reload is to trim 45-90 brass .110 shorter, run that through a .43 spanish die and then run the neck through a .44 pistol die. You'll need a custom mold but the Lee .430-310 mold will work fine in a pinch. The brass will expand and the extractor might have trouble grabbing some cases but the rifle will fire. After fire forming the case capacity expands slightly and you'll have to add a grease cookie or a wad to take up the space. My rifle has a 9.5/10 bore and was decently accurate with 77gr of FFg.

50-110 brass is better but you will have to reduce it in a lathe prior to forming. It's a bit more work than I was willing to do, personally.

If you give it a shot let me know how it goes!
 
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The knick in the bore is an easy fix, you can do it witch valve grindin compound on the end of a round brass, or even steel screw head, A lathe is better, but if you don't have access to one, or don't want to take it to a smith, with a little care, you should be fine.

They were all a bit sloppy from the few I've seen/owned, and mine was in excellent condition.

That bore should work well with "cast" .429 lead bullets, unless you want to paper patch a .425 lead bullet of at least 300 grains.

If the bore is pitted, I would definitely go with paper patching.

Powder coating the .429 bullets would be the way to go, to reduce leading.

43 Spanish cases can be blown out to your chamber dimensions, but they may also have the 10.75x58R available as well.

From personal experience, it will shoot best with black powder, but IMR3031 loads will work OK.

I sold my Berdan II last year. I wasn't using it anymore because I can no longer use iron sights.

Black Powder works best because it has the right burn rate to give the cast lead bullets enough initial force to cause the bullets to obturate into the grooves. Smokeless, not so much.

Slugging the bore and ordering the proper mold makes it easier, but remember, these rifles were built at a time for military contracts, and had a pretty broad acceptance spectrum. They were also designed for BP and wrapped cast lead bullets, with pretty much alleviated sizing issues.

At the time my buddy and I bought these rifles, he wanted to use cast and jacketed 44 (.429) pistol bullets or the same size 444 cast/jacketed bullets.

You don't want to shoot jacketed bullets from the Berdanll, the will wear your bore very quickly.

I don't know if CamPro has any 300+ grain 44 (.429) bullets available, but they should be OK.

RCBS has dies, not cheap though.

Bertram may also have brass.

REMEMBER, the Berdanll is built for BLACK POWDER pressures, and meant to be used with cast lead bullets. Handload accordingly.
 
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bearhunter said:
43 Spanish cases can be blown out to your chamber dimensions, but they may also have the 10.75x58R available as well.
Click to expand...

I started loading for mine recently and you just can't get 43 Spanish cases at the moment. They're available from the US but the cheapest ones I found were about 3.50 USD per case and that's only if you bought them bulk. Were they more available, they would be the best option even over modified .50-110 brass. Both the Russian and the Spanish cartridge were adapted from the original 43 Remington Rolling block cartridge.

Lots of people have used 45-70 cases but they are short. Meanwhile, 45-90 cases are only .100 too long and are available in Canada for about 1.50 CAD per case. I'll use those until I can get 43 Spanish brass.
 
Prophet River, a site sponsor has RCC made 43 Spanish, but the price is rediculous, at $880/50.

I'm not going to diss them for the price, because options are very limited.

Those 45/90 cases will last you a long time.

I couldn't find any online for less than $1.75 per case, plus taxes and shipping.

Bertram cases are made in Australia, and you might be able to find them cheaper there.
 
bearhunter said:
Prophet River, a site sponsor has RCC made 43 Spanish, but the price is rediculous, at $880/50.

I'm not going to diss them for the price, because options are very limited.

Those 45/90 cases will last you a long time.

I couldn't find any online for less than $1.75 per case, plus taxes and shipping.

Bertram cases are made in Australia, and you might be able to find them cheaper there.
Click to expand...

I saw those RCC cases as well but 880 USD is more than I bought my Berdan for hahaha.

I forgot but 44-77 bottleneck Sharps cases can also be used but they're also going for 3.50 USD per case. 44-77 is often made with 43 Spanish brass, go figure.

Once the 45-90s are trimmed, sized and fireformed they only really need a neck sizing through the 44 pistol die to be loaded again. Only drawback is unreliable extraction when you're initially fireforming. It did get better afterwards but not 100%.

I checked, Bertram's Canadian distributor has .43 Spanish cases priced at 110 CAD for 20 cases... I'm not sold at that price.
 
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The Berdan II rifles I've owned and used always had excellent extraction.

Even when fire forming cases.

I mostly used BP in my rifle, so the "quick bump" effect worked very well to fireform to chamber dimensions.

Nothing comes for free from most companies, and I pay $4+ per case for my 280AI. I made the mistake of fire-forming 280 Rem cases, and wasn't careful one morning, and ended up with 280AI ammo on a hunting trip with my 280Rem.

I know they're expensive, and in the past, like you, when money was tight, I would go through a lot of effort to make up cases, including turning them out on my lathe, one by one.

Because of the relativley low pressures needed to make these lovely rifles work as well as they were intended, once your cases are formed, they will last for years.

I will again advise you to use BP for best results, but wash out the fired case with dish soap and hot water after each use, and anneal the case after a half dozen shots.

The companies that make up the cases to keep these heirlooms shooting, usually work on marginal profits, because their batches are small.

It's often more of a labor of love than becoming wealthy from the job.

Costs of manufacturing include power, time, employees/benefits, postage, building purchase/rent, upkeep of buildings/tooling, and the list goes on and on.

I can remember a time when we could purchase this ammo as cheap surplus, but that was 60 years ago, when the Soviets were dumping their remaining stocks onto the surplus markets, and they had to compete with everyone else clearing out similar ammo, and it was a buyer's market back then.

Do what you have to do, is all I can say.

Have fun, doing this stuff is enlightening and gives you a positive sense of accomplishment, after you get it right.
 
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