I have some .303 dies arriving tomorrow so last night I was looking at load data for that caliber. Based on what I'm reading it seems like the .303 can take bullet diameters of .311 or .312. The load data I'm looking at in my Lyman manual is based on a bullet diameter of .312 but the bullets I found at my local store are .311. Does that difference have any impact on the load data I plan to use?
Reloading for Lee Enfield
- Thread starter Great Crouton
- Start date
Absolutely no impact on the load data. If you mic'd all of the .312" bullets you would probably find that they run from better than .312" to near .311" in the same box. Not going to make adifference in a Lee Enfield barrel for dangerous situations. Simply too sloppy for high pressure spike because the bullet is .001" larger.
The difference is negligible in a new rifle. However, many .303s are not new and are oversized from the get go. The original manufacturing specs for a .303Br was to ensure that the bore was not more than 0.316".
I have never seen anything that sloppy that is less than 100yrs old. However, I needed to get a mold made at 0.316" for a 220gn bullet for an 1898 Lee Enfied Calvary Carbine.
I have two rifles that really do not like 0.311" bullets and 5 more than will shoot anything I put in them from .310" and up (I have a few hundred 180 gn 0.314"s left and about 100 200gn at .03145" which I hoard).
The only thing you can do is to get both diameters and shoot them with the same load development. Groups should be slightly (and I mean SLIGHTLY) better with one than the other and if both are satisfactory, then get the one that is easiest to find.
The difference is negligible in a new rifle. However, many .303s are not new and are oversized from the get go. The original manufacturing specs for a .303Br was to ensure that the bore was not more than 0.316".
I have never seen anything that sloppy that is less than 100yrs old. However, I needed to get a mold made at 0.316" for a 220gn bullet for an 1898 Lee Enfied Calvary Carbine.
I have two rifles that really do not like 0.311" bullets and 5 more than will shoot anything I put in them from .310" and up (I have a few hundred 180 gn 0.314"s left and about 100 200gn at .03145" which I hoard).
The only thing you can do is to get both diameters and shoot them with the same load development. Groups should be slightly (and I mean SLIGHTLY) better with one than the other and if both are satisfactory, then get the one that is easiest to find.
burnt_servo
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- right in the middle of b.c.
you should be fine , as long as you aren't using max charge loads right off the start .
use the starting loads listed in the manual and work your way up , watching for signs of pressure .
i have a parker hale 303 with what appears to be a 308 bore ( or very close to it ) .
it will digest factory 303 rounds and my handloads using .311 easily without any issue .
something else that may help , most of the major bullet company's have reloading data , also most powder companies have reloading data using the majority of popular bullets .
do a bit of digging and see if one of them has reloading data for the specific bullet your using .
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp is one of my go to sites
use the starting loads listed in the manual and work your way up , watching for signs of pressure .
i have a parker hale 303 with what appears to be a 308 bore ( or very close to it ) .
it will digest factory 303 rounds and my handloads using .311 easily without any issue .
something else that may help , most of the major bullet company's have reloading data , also most powder companies have reloading data using the majority of popular bullets .
do a bit of digging and see if one of them has reloading data for the specific bullet your using .
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp is one of my go to sites
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I mostly load and shoot .303 british. I'll add that most lee Enfields shoot best with flatbased bullets, so if those .311's that you're using are boat tails you may get poor accuracy. But that's the fun of reloading and I've found I learned more from the bullets that didn't shoot well then any of my tack driving rounds.
I load for a no1 MkIII* (.314 bore), a no4 MkI (.310 bore) and a Ross MkIII (.310 bore), I've had great success with hornaday .312 round nose flat base bullets in all of them. If those bullets you have don't shoot well maybe try some of the hornadays as they seem to be my go to bullet for .303's.
Like others have said, start at the starting grains listed in your manual and move up in 1/2 grain increments till you get a decent group. Then load that charge again and see if you can duplicate your best group.
I load for a no1 MkIII* (.314 bore), a no4 MkI (.310 bore) and a Ross MkIII (.310 bore), I've had great success with hornaday .312 round nose flat base bullets in all of them. If those bullets you have don't shoot well maybe try some of the hornadays as they seem to be my go to bullet for .303's.
Like others have said, start at the starting grains listed in your manual and move up in 1/2 grain increments till you get a decent group. Then load that charge again and see if you can duplicate your best group.
Yes, I recall reading that somewhere so I made sure that the ones I bought are flat based. They just happen to be Hornady as well but SP, not RN.
Below is a Wilson case gauge with a case fired in a No.4 Enfield rifle, the amount it is sticking above the gauge is how much longer the military chamber is from a civilian SAAMI .303 British chamber. If you use full length resizing dies set up normally this is how much too far the sizing die will push the shoulder of the case back.
This is what will happen to your cases. (stretching in the base web area)
If you fire form your cases using a small rubber o-ring around the rim the o-ring when compressed will center the case in the rear of the chamber and hold the case against the bolt face.
Once fire formed if you neck size only the shoulder of the case will hold the case against the bolt face and your cases will not stretch and cause case head separations.
I fire form my cases using reduced loads and .312 pistol bullets.
By using this method I have gotten as many as 32 reloadings from a .303 case and the cases started failing due to neck cracks and not from case head separations.
This is what will happen to your cases. (stretching in the base web area)
If you fire form your cases using a small rubber o-ring around the rim the o-ring when compressed will center the case in the rear of the chamber and hold the case against the bolt face.
Once fire formed if you neck size only the shoulder of the case will hold the case against the bolt face and your cases will not stretch and cause case head separations.
I fire form my cases using reduced loads and .312 pistol bullets.
By using this method I have gotten as many as 32 reloadings from a .303 case and the cases started failing due to neck cracks and not from case head separations.
bigedp51, I always love it when you post this stuff. When I started reloading 303B I found it on another forum and it was immensely helpful.
How worn is the barrel in the Enfield? Mine slugs at .315" and with .3110's or .3115's the bullets tumble and keyhole. I have to use jacketed .312" at a minimum to get it to not tumble. Without a jacket even my .314" are tumbling at higher velocities. May need to order a custom .316" mould for it. A gentleman at the range I was chatting with was having all Remington .303B ammo keyhole at 50yds through his but Winchester didn't. I guess Win uses a larger bullet than Rem?
How worn is the barrel in the Enfield? Mine slugs at .315" and with .3110's or .3115's the bullets tumble and keyhole. I have to use jacketed .312" at a minimum to get it to not tumble. Without a jacket even my .314" are tumbling at higher velocities. May need to order a custom .316" mould for it. A gentleman at the range I was chatting with was having all Remington .303B ammo keyhole at 50yds through his but Winchester didn't. I guess Win uses a larger bullet than Rem?
As stated earlier the Enfield shoots best with flat base bullets if the barrel is worn, now what does "worn" mean? The military Enfield rifles used a early type double base powder called cordite, the problem was the cordite powder contained more nitroglycerin than many pistol powder use today. The cordite powder was a hot burning powder that caused throat and bore erosion, also cordite ammunition was banned from machine gun use because of short lived barrels.
I do not shoot cast bullets any longer and in worn Enfields I use "LONG and FAT" flat base jacketed bullets, my favorite bullet is the Hornady .312 174 grain round nose. This type bullet has more surface area to grip the worn rifling and stabilize, the Hornady above or Sierra .311 180 grain flat base should shoot in most Enfield rifles. If these two jacketed bullets do not shoot well you can try cast bullets or turn the rifle into a wall hanger.
Also note the rubber o-ring idea is not mine, a Canadian posted this at the old Culver Enfield forum. Normally on a standard bottle neck cartridge you can seat your bullets long and hard into the rifling to hold the case against the bolt face or create a false shoulder on the neck of the case to hold it against the bolt face and fire form the case.
But here is the problem, you can't seat your bullets long on a worn Enfield because the rifling in the throat is gone. The second problem is creating a false shoulder can cause split necks, so the rubber o-ring is the simplest method to use on a rimmed cartridge.
Polish-Jack
CGN Regular
- Location
- Kelowna, B.C. Canada
I fire form my cases using reduced loads and .312 pistol bullets.
By using this method I have gotten as many as 32 reloadings from a .303 case and the cases started failing due to neck cracks and not from case head separations.
Where did you get those pistol bullets? I have been looking for a source for a month!
A small Sporting Goods store near my house in Pennsylvania went out of business several years ago and I bought all of his 32 cal pistol bullets and all of his SR4759 powder at half price.
I found some at the store that is part of the range I go to. If you can find a local Hornady distributor they should be able to order them in for you. The staff at the store I frequent complain about Hornady being far more back ordered than any other component manufacturer though. The current shortages wont help with that.
"...Does that difference have any impact..." Nope. However, as mentioned, your barrel's inside diameter does. Lee-Enfield barrels can measure from .311" to .315" and still be considered ok. Over .315" the barrel is shot out.
"...so I purchase .312 bullets..." .311" bullets will be fine.
"...so I purchase .312 bullets..." .311" bullets will be fine.
Below is a Wilson case gauge with a case fired in a No.4 Enfield rifle, the amount it is sticking above the gauge is how much longer the military chamber is from a civilian SAAMI .303 British chamber. If you use full length resizing dies set up normally this is how much too far the sizing die will push the shoulder of the case back.
This is what will happen to your cases. (stretching in the base web area)
If you fire form your cases using a small rubber o-ring around the rim the o-ring when compressed will center the case in the rear of the chamber and hold the case against the bolt face.
Once fire formed if you neck size only the shoulder of the case will hold the case against the bolt face and your cases will not stretch and cause case head separations.
I fire form my cases using reduced loads and .312 pistol bullets.
By using this method I have gotten as many as 32 reloadings from a .303 case and the cases started failing due to neck cracks and not from case head separations.
Do you have any more details on the type of rubber o-rigs that you used?
