Hey everyone. Recently picked up my first Garand from a member here. I'd like to load up some rounds for it that duplicate M2 ball as closely as possible. I'm just curious to know what powder I should buy. What works well for those of you who reload for the m1 and doesn't damage your op rod? Thanks in advance.
Reloading for M1 Garand
- Thread starter jfred
- Start date
Head over to the reloading forum and search for Garand.
Here are some posts to get you started. Read a lot of the information, there are more things than just the powder you should be familiar with.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/878649-reloading-for-m1-garand?highlight=garand
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/869174-30-06-relaoding-for-m1-garand?highlight=garand
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/866155-M1-Garand?highlight=garand
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/782912-depriming-an-FTF?highlight=garand
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/772667-Reloading-for-a-Garand?highlight=garand
Here are some posts to get you started. Read a lot of the information, there are more things than just the powder you should be familiar with.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/878649-reloading-for-m1-garand?highlight=garand
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/869174-30-06-relaoding-for-m1-garand?highlight=garand
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/866155-M1-Garand?highlight=garand
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/782912-depriming-an-FTF?highlight=garand
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/772667-Reloading-for-a-Garand?highlight=garand
aspenkarius
Member
- Location
- West central alberta.
IMR4895.
i use 47gr behind a hornady 168 BTHP
its a nice accurate (in my rifle) load.
i found it online and tested it with an adjustable plug all the way out and tightened up until had to close it all the way to cycle my action. keep in mind i compared it to my hornady manual in the section specifically set out for M1 garands and you should know that 47.1gr is max load for IMR4895 behind the Hornady 168 BTHP. it would not hurt to back down a few grains and test it yourself with an adjustable plug.
i use 47gr behind a hornady 168 BTHP
its a nice accurate (in my rifle) load.
i found it online and tested it with an adjustable plug all the way out and tightened up until had to close it all the way to cycle my action. keep in mind i compared it to my hornady manual in the section specifically set out for M1 garands and you should know that 47.1gr is max load for IMR4895 behind the Hornady 168 BTHP. it would not hurt to back down a few grains and test it yourself with an adjustable plug.
BILLIONS of rounds of M-2 Ball ammo were cranked out for these rifles during WW2 and afterwards.
The military Specification was a 152-grain flatbase bullet with 48 to 50 grains of IMR-4895 (depnding on Lot Number of the powder).
This should produce 2750 - 2800 ft/sec.
I use 48 grains with a Hornady 150 Spire Point, weighed charges, and find this to be very accurate. I am using a 1953 Springfield M-1 Rifle which has about 400 rounds through it since new.
Hope this helps.
The military Specification was a 152-grain flatbase bullet with 48 to 50 grains of IMR-4895 (depnding on Lot Number of the powder).
This should produce 2750 - 2800 ft/sec.
I use 48 grains with a Hornady 150 Spire Point, weighed charges, and find this to be very accurate. I am using a 1953 Springfield M-1 Rifle which has about 400 rounds through it since new.
Hope this helps.
Hard primers are also helpful to avoid slamfires from the floating firing pin. Make sure the primers are seated below flush,
and the cases are properly resized.
I would avoid Federal LR primers and current gold Winchester LR primers because of that.
Pre-2000 silver WLR's are fine as are CCI 200, CCI #34 (recommmended) and CCI BR2's if you're having sourcing issues.
I used bulk 165g .30 cal SP projectiles (Rem and Win) with my Garands, happy with the accuracy out to 250m.
and the cases are properly resized.
I would avoid Federal LR primers and current gold Winchester LR primers because of that.
Pre-2000 silver WLR's are fine as are CCI 200, CCI #34 (recommmended) and CCI BR2's if you're having sourcing issues.
I used bulk 165g .30 cal SP projectiles (Rem and Win) with my Garands, happy with the accuracy out to 250m.
Here is a summary of how to load for a Garand based on thousands of safe, reliable and accurate reloads in several dozen Garands.
1. Only use 150 to 168gr bullets. Best accuracy comes from a 155 or 168gr match bullet. The Hornady 150gr FMJBT is the most accurate of the non-match FMJ bullets.
2. Only use IMR4895, IMR4064, or H4895 powder. IMR4064 has proven to be more accurate by a nose, but it is a bit tougher to throw charges because of it's larger grains. You can either weigh each charge or set your measure to throw a few grains less than the desired charge weight and then "trickle up" to the desired weight on the scale for each round. All of these propellants will produce excellent accuracy and all generate the correct gas post pressure pulse to cycle the action safely and w/o damage. There is no need to look further.
3. Always FL re-size the brass and don't try for more than 5 firings on a piece of brass. The rifle is hard on brass and the rims are well chewed by the extractor. Set the FL re-sizing die so that the bolt freely chambers on resized brass w/o resistance. You can remove the op rod and strip the bolt to trial chamber resized brass until your die is correctly set up.
4. Keep brass trimmed below max specified OAL.
5. Seat primers slightly below flush with the casehead to avoid the possibility of an out of battery detonation caused by the boltface making contact with a high primer on chambering. Primer pockets need to be well scrubbed and ideally cut to uniform depth to ensure this.
6. If possible use a CCI No34 primer as these meet MILSPEC hardness. that said either a WLR or Rem LR primer work fine, but keep them all seated below flush.
7. As with any reloads, use a reloading manual and a proper scale and other equipment. Safety trumps everything when dealing with a 48-50,000 PSI pressure bloom a couple of inches from your face.
Here are some loads which have proven to be safe, accurate, and reliable in many Garands.
1. 150gr Hornady FMJ or 155gr Sierra or 155gr Nosler Match in LC68 brass, CCI No34 or Rem LR primer, either 48gr IMR4064 or 47gr IMR4895, COL 3.280
2. 168gr Sierra, Nosler or Hornady Match in LC68 brass, CCI No34 or Rem LR primer, either 46.5gr IMR4064 or 45.5gr IMR4895, COL 3.330
1. Only use 150 to 168gr bullets. Best accuracy comes from a 155 or 168gr match bullet. The Hornady 150gr FMJBT is the most accurate of the non-match FMJ bullets.
2. Only use IMR4895, IMR4064, or H4895 powder. IMR4064 has proven to be more accurate by a nose, but it is a bit tougher to throw charges because of it's larger grains. You can either weigh each charge or set your measure to throw a few grains less than the desired charge weight and then "trickle up" to the desired weight on the scale for each round. All of these propellants will produce excellent accuracy and all generate the correct gas post pressure pulse to cycle the action safely and w/o damage. There is no need to look further.
3. Always FL re-size the brass and don't try for more than 5 firings on a piece of brass. The rifle is hard on brass and the rims are well chewed by the extractor. Set the FL re-sizing die so that the bolt freely chambers on resized brass w/o resistance. You can remove the op rod and strip the bolt to trial chamber resized brass until your die is correctly set up.
4. Keep brass trimmed below max specified OAL.
5. Seat primers slightly below flush with the casehead to avoid the possibility of an out of battery detonation caused by the boltface making contact with a high primer on chambering. Primer pockets need to be well scrubbed and ideally cut to uniform depth to ensure this.
6. If possible use a CCI No34 primer as these meet MILSPEC hardness. that said either a WLR or Rem LR primer work fine, but keep them all seated below flush.
7. As with any reloads, use a reloading manual and a proper scale and other equipment. Safety trumps everything when dealing with a 48-50,000 PSI pressure bloom a couple of inches from your face.
Here are some loads which have proven to be safe, accurate, and reliable in many Garands.
1. 150gr Hornady FMJ or 155gr Sierra or 155gr Nosler Match in LC68 brass, CCI No34 or Rem LR primer, either 48gr IMR4064 or 47gr IMR4895, COL 3.280
2. 168gr Sierra, Nosler or Hornady Match in LC68 brass, CCI No34 or Rem LR primer, either 46.5gr IMR4064 or 45.5gr IMR4895, COL 3.330
I gleaned this from another forum. I found it very informative, and thought it would be a good idea to share it here. I appreciate the efforts of the original OP for taking the time to put this together and hope he is not too peeved with my re-posting it here. There is a graphic that was part of the original posting, showing the pressure curves, but I think most will be able to understand the article without it.
Reloading for the M1 Garand
One of the problems with the internet is that erroneous or incomplete information sometimes gets circulated and accepted to the point that it overwhelms the truth.
In the case of M1 rifle port pressure, the erroneous information is that port pressure is primarily related to powder burning rate and bullet weight. The truth is that these are merely secondary factors. M1 port pressure is most closely related to gas volume (technically, mass and temperature), which is directly related to powder charge weight. Burning rate and bullet weight of course have a direct influence on PEAK pressure, but this occurs long before the bullet gets to the gas port.
With light bullets, we normally use faster powders for best performance since the relative ease with which the bullet starts to move means we can use a fairly large charge of fast powder without excessive peak pressure. With heavy bullets that take longer to accelerate, charge tables tell us the slower powders will give the highest velocity with the lowest peak pressure.
The M1 rifle's gas system was designed for the port pressures generated by the volume of gas produced by a charge of about 44 to 50 grains of powder behind a 173-grain bullet at 2640 fps (M1 Ball). It also happened to work just fine with about the same charge using 150-grain bullets at about 2800 fps (M2 Ball). The burning rate that gives these velocities to these bullets is about that we find in IMR 4895 and 4064. If we use a slower powder, say 4350, we find the appropriate charge for these velocities is heavier - about 55 grains for the 173 and 58 for the 150. Such heavier charges naturally generate a larger volume of gas, but at a slower rate that keeps peak pressure in normal limits. Given that the volume of the cartridge case and bore (up to the gas port) is a fixed quantity, the larger volume of gas necessarily translates to higher pressure at the gas port.
Conversely, if we stick with 4895 but change to a 110-grain bullet, we can stuff in some 54 grains of powder at normal pressure, for a much higher velocity. Again, the heavier charge generates more volume of gas and gives high port pressure. With 200-grain bullets, on the other hand, we can get good performance with 45-50 grain charges of slightly slower powders like 4320 or 4350, giving the same gas volume and consequently appropriate port pressure.
A lot of people who haven't well understood the role of gas volume have focused on burning rate or bullet weight instead - and that's what gets them into logical difficulty. It's very true that an optimum load of the slow powders with 150-180 grain bullets will give excessive M1 port pressure, and also true that the usual best bolt-gun loads of the really slow numbers (like 4831) with 200+ grain bullets will also give excess port pressure. What's missing in the logic is that it's neither the powder burning rate nor the bullet weight that's the problem's root cause - but rather the charge weight (mass, to be more accurate) and consequent gas volume.
It's unfortunate this mistaken (or just incomplete) logic has been so widely publicized, since knowing the whole story really makes powder selection much easier. Regardless of bullet weight, powder charges below 50 grains will generally give appropriate M1 port pressure (or less). Between 50 and 52 grains is marginal. Over 52 grains we may begin to see risk of damage to the operating rod. Of course powders must be chosen that will also yield acceptable peak pressure and velocity. (50 grains of 4198 will still make a mess - thanks to excessive peak pressure - but the port pressure would be near normal.)
50-grain charges of fast and slow powders yield vastly different peak pressure and velocity, but M1 port pressure is virtually the same even with these extreme examples.
There are certainly exceptions to this basic rule. Different powder compositions give off different volumes of gas for a given charge weight. But if we stick to the commonly-available rifle powders now on the market, there is surprisingly little variation in the mass/gas relationship and we're not likely to get in trouble with excess port pressure if we choose a published load using less than 50 grains of a powder that gives acceptable performance with our chosen bullet weight.
I urge anyone finding this concept difficult to stick to their existing guidelines. After all, there's little to be lost by limiting one's bullet and powder choices to the accepted standards - 150-180 grain bullets and powders close to 4895's burning rate.
Reloading for the M1 Garand
One of the problems with the internet is that erroneous or incomplete information sometimes gets circulated and accepted to the point that it overwhelms the truth.
In the case of M1 rifle port pressure, the erroneous information is that port pressure is primarily related to powder burning rate and bullet weight. The truth is that these are merely secondary factors. M1 port pressure is most closely related to gas volume (technically, mass and temperature), which is directly related to powder charge weight. Burning rate and bullet weight of course have a direct influence on PEAK pressure, but this occurs long before the bullet gets to the gas port.
With light bullets, we normally use faster powders for best performance since the relative ease with which the bullet starts to move means we can use a fairly large charge of fast powder without excessive peak pressure. With heavy bullets that take longer to accelerate, charge tables tell us the slower powders will give the highest velocity with the lowest peak pressure.
The M1 rifle's gas system was designed for the port pressures generated by the volume of gas produced by a charge of about 44 to 50 grains of powder behind a 173-grain bullet at 2640 fps (M1 Ball). It also happened to work just fine with about the same charge using 150-grain bullets at about 2800 fps (M2 Ball). The burning rate that gives these velocities to these bullets is about that we find in IMR 4895 and 4064. If we use a slower powder, say 4350, we find the appropriate charge for these velocities is heavier - about 55 grains for the 173 and 58 for the 150. Such heavier charges naturally generate a larger volume of gas, but at a slower rate that keeps peak pressure in normal limits. Given that the volume of the cartridge case and bore (up to the gas port) is a fixed quantity, the larger volume of gas necessarily translates to higher pressure at the gas port.
Conversely, if we stick with 4895 but change to a 110-grain bullet, we can stuff in some 54 grains of powder at normal pressure, for a much higher velocity. Again, the heavier charge generates more volume of gas and gives high port pressure. With 200-grain bullets, on the other hand, we can get good performance with 45-50 grain charges of slightly slower powders like 4320 or 4350, giving the same gas volume and consequently appropriate port pressure.
A lot of people who haven't well understood the role of gas volume have focused on burning rate or bullet weight instead - and that's what gets them into logical difficulty. It's very true that an optimum load of the slow powders with 150-180 grain bullets will give excessive M1 port pressure, and also true that the usual best bolt-gun loads of the really slow numbers (like 4831) with 200+ grain bullets will also give excess port pressure. What's missing in the logic is that it's neither the powder burning rate nor the bullet weight that's the problem's root cause - but rather the charge weight (mass, to be more accurate) and consequent gas volume.
It's unfortunate this mistaken (or just incomplete) logic has been so widely publicized, since knowing the whole story really makes powder selection much easier. Regardless of bullet weight, powder charges below 50 grains will generally give appropriate M1 port pressure (or less). Between 50 and 52 grains is marginal. Over 52 grains we may begin to see risk of damage to the operating rod. Of course powders must be chosen that will also yield acceptable peak pressure and velocity. (50 grains of 4198 will still make a mess - thanks to excessive peak pressure - but the port pressure would be near normal.)
50-grain charges of fast and slow powders yield vastly different peak pressure and velocity, but M1 port pressure is virtually the same even with these extreme examples.
There are certainly exceptions to this basic rule. Different powder compositions give off different volumes of gas for a given charge weight. But if we stick to the commonly-available rifle powders now on the market, there is surprisingly little variation in the mass/gas relationship and we're not likely to get in trouble with excess port pressure if we choose a published load using less than 50 grains of a powder that gives acceptable performance with our chosen bullet weight.
I urge anyone finding this concept difficult to stick to their existing guidelines. After all, there's little to be lost by limiting one's bullet and powder choices to the accepted standards - 150-180 grain bullets and powders close to 4895's burning rate.
Which all goes to show why the US military but up a gazzilion rounds of .30-06 ammo in Garand clips, all of which was loaded with IMR4895 and either the 152gr ball or 168gr AP bullet. 1950s vintage military match ammo for the Garand also used IMR4895, but with a 172gr match bullet. Both IMR4895 and IMR4064 were introduced in the 1930s and have stood the test of time in the face of all of the "wonder powders" which have since hit the market. They are still an excellent first choice in the .30-06 and the .308 Win/7.62NATO with 150/165/168gr bullets. If you are shooting .30-06 in a bolt gun, IMR4350 is great with 180gr bullets and the almost forgotten IMR4320 works well with everything. Just stick to IMR4895 and IMR4064 in a Garand.
