I have an enfield revolver and a S&W victory model both chambered in 38/200 or 38S&W but the ammunition is very pricy and rare. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on case substitutes. Can i resize and trim 38 special cases? Does anyone know what powder would give the closest original performance? I want to simulate as closely as i can the original lead rounds for these two old girls.
Reloading for the Enfield revolver
- Thread starter rci2950
- Start date
Nope.....can't use cut down 38 special cases......wrong diameter......typical 38/200 or 38 S&W or 38 Colt New Police all use a .361 diameter projectile where as 38/357 uses .357 diameter. You CAN load 38/357 projectiles in the 38 S&W cases without issue, however cut down 38 special will SPLIT the case EVERY TIME!!! I know, I tried! I personally load 38 S&W with around 2.3 gn of WW 231 ( or bullseye) and a 358 diam projectile and have fired 1000's or these loads with no troubles in ANY of my old Webley's Smiths and Enfields. It's actually easier to find now than 2 years ago. Starline Brass makes 38 S&W cases....should be able to order easily through local gun shops.......Remington and Winchester both offer Factory loads...in my area....roughly $40 per 50 rounds...sucks but I've reloaded some of my cases over a dozen times with 0 issues. Hope this helps
Rusty Wood here in Mission shows Starline .38S&W brass in stock @ $19.00/50, $34.00/100. And CGN'er Jethunter has cast bullets: 200 gr RN, lube-sized 0.362"......$42/200, or 150 gr RN, lube-sized 0.362"......$$42/200.
Stuart
Stuart
I bought my brass from Rusty Wood and also picked up a box of factory Winchester ammo from SFRC (148gr I think, not 200gr).
I cast .358" bullets and powder coat them and they end up around .360" to .361". I tried .357" and .358" bullets in both cast and jacketed and they all tumbled and keyholed but that's with my revolver; yours may work if it has a slightly tighter bore. The bullets from Jethunter seem perfect and I'd order those if I wasn't setup for casting and powder coating.
There are some reports of people shortening .38 special cases to make .38 S&W with varying degrees of success but like sdrummer1 said, it often ends with split cases. Split cases blasting hot gasses in the cylinder isn't the most healthy thing either.
Even with the lighter bullets (148gr factory Winchester and 150gr cast powder coated) my PoI is still quite low. I was kind of expecting it to shoot high with the lighter bullets. I know this was meant as a last-ditch self-defence gun, not a true combat pistol, but at 25yds I'm shooting 8-10" below PoA. Most groups I've shot with any ammo is around 10" in diameter. I'm not a great shot with a pistol (I prefer rifle) but I can still punch 3" groups at 25yds with my S&W Model 19. My Enfield is kind of beaten up and doesn't index properly (I need to nudge the cylinder with each shot) but I was surprised by such a drop at 25yds.
Also keep in mind that there is some data found from various sources that says it's not to be used in a break-top revolver; only a solid-frame revolver. I tried a few of the solid-frame-only loads and they still had about the same drop at 25yds.
I cast .358" bullets and powder coat them and they end up around .360" to .361". I tried .357" and .358" bullets in both cast and jacketed and they all tumbled and keyholed but that's with my revolver; yours may work if it has a slightly tighter bore. The bullets from Jethunter seem perfect and I'd order those if I wasn't setup for casting and powder coating.
There are some reports of people shortening .38 special cases to make .38 S&W with varying degrees of success but like sdrummer1 said, it often ends with split cases. Split cases blasting hot gasses in the cylinder isn't the most healthy thing either.
Even with the lighter bullets (148gr factory Winchester and 150gr cast powder coated) my PoI is still quite low. I was kind of expecting it to shoot high with the lighter bullets. I know this was meant as a last-ditch self-defence gun, not a true combat pistol, but at 25yds I'm shooting 8-10" below PoA. Most groups I've shot with any ammo is around 10" in diameter. I'm not a great shot with a pistol (I prefer rifle) but I can still punch 3" groups at 25yds with my S&W Model 19. My Enfield is kind of beaten up and doesn't index properly (I need to nudge the cylinder with each shot) but I was surprised by such a drop at 25yds.
Also keep in mind that there is some data found from various sources that says it's not to be used in a break-top revolver; only a solid-frame revolver. I tried a few of the solid-frame-only loads and they still had about the same drop at 25yds.
I don't have a .38 S&W so can't comment from direct experience but I understand that often heavier bullets print higher due to the slower velocity = longer time in the bore = more time for the muzzle to rise before the bullet exits the barrel, so I'd be inclined to go with the original 200 gr. bullets. I have a MkIV .455 Webley which shoots pretty much to POA with 250-265 gr. bullets, although, like you, the groups tend to be of the "minute of Bosche" variety, despite my revolver being in mechanically very good condition with tight cylinder lockup.
Stuart8-10" does seem excessive. Note to self: "When the sewage hits the ventilation, aim for top button of tunic."
I bought 160 gr bullets sized .360 from Bullet Barn. These are made for the 38 S&W and in my Victory they are like match ammo.
I suggest you buy some proper cases. But, in the meantime, the correct substiute case is 9mm. Don't use 9mm load data!!
I suggest you buy some proper cases. But, in the meantime, the correct substiute case is 9mm. Don't use 9mm load data!!
Rusty Wood here in Mission shows Starline .38S&W brass in stock @ $19.00/50, $34.00/100. And CGN'er Jethunter has cast bullets: 200 gr RN, lube-sized 0.362"......$42/200, or 150 gr RN, lube-sized 0.362"......$$42/200.
This is how I started, jethunter 200gr bullets loaded over 2.1 grains of unique in new starline brass from rustywood. I now cast my own 150 gr bullets and load them over 2.5gr of unique. I crank out rounds pretty quickly on my Lee Pro 1000 with case and bullet feeder.
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
A 9mm case would have to expand even more than a 38sp. Even with moon clips it wouldn't be the right answer.
I have used 38sp cut down and can't recall having split any but then that was with black powder. Won't take long for most of the Starline dealers to get you the correct brass.
I have used 38sp cut down and can't recall having split any but then that was with black powder. Won't take long for most of the Starline dealers to get you the correct brass.
9mm and 38 S&W are almost identical case dimensions.
The 9mm is rimless, so after firing they have to be poked out with a pencil or stick.
My revolver has a step in the chamber that the rimless case will rest against. If yours is bored straight through, you are SOL.
Although loaded 9mm ammo will chamber well in many 38 S&W revolvers, don't shoot it. 10,000 psi vs. 35,000 psi.
I call B/S! Won't split every time. I've loaded .38Spl cut down with out the splits in my H&R .38 Defender. These cases have been loaded 2X and are ready for a 3rd. 158gr SWC with 2.6gr HP-38.
I suspect this is all due to "wartime tolerances." .303 British chambers and bores are all over the place, too.
I suspect this is all due to "wartime tolerances." .303 British chambers and bores are all over the place, too.
I suspect you are correct.
