Reloading for the M14/M305/M1A

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msg.drew

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I have been looking for any tips or guides on reloading for the M14, I just picked up a Norinco M14 from Marstar... I have been reading alot about the fact that 7.62x51 is the same as .308 or .308 is not the same as 7.62x51.

What should I get so I can start to make my own ammo.
 
there's been volumes written on the m14 both match loads and hunting, you just have to look around on the net for them-as far as reloading goes, a good basic set-up for 308 will do just fine- and that topic has been discussed ad infinitum here as well
 
As a new reloader, the best thing to do is buy a good reloading manual--one with a lengthy and ideally illustrated 'introduction' section--and read it front to back. This will give you a good, basic foundation for asking questions like 'what press do I need?' and the thousands of other questions that follow.

Another more basic question is: how do you know you want to reload? You can still get surplus 7.62 that's plenty reliable and 'pretty' accurate. From a stock Marstar M305 you're unlikely to see match-grade accuracy, so reloading for groups seems a bit like pouring top fuel into a Pacer.

My suggestion is to try some surplus ammo, and turn to reloading only if you need to solve a specific problem--i.e. match accuracy, hunting loads, cost savings--that the surplus doesn't already solve.
 
you guys don't read signatures?

I am not a new reloader, I reload what people shoot in 10 years in one... I have access to cheap reloading supplies I can reload A-max 168 cheaper then surplus ammo

I am more concerned with headspacing etc. My Ar-15's all have 5.56 nato chambers on them but I use Remington 223 ammo.

What I was wondering is should I pick up some .308 dies or I find some that are for 7.62x51 which don't seem to exist. From my past experience I will just get some .308 dies and start loading... already have a tone of .308 brass and bullets
 
msg.drew said:
you guys don't read signatures?
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msg.drew said:
I am not a new reloader, I reload what people shoot in 10 years in one... I have access to cheap reloading supplies I can reload A-max 168 cheaper then surplus ammo

I am more concerned with headspacing etc. My Ar-15's all have 5.56 nato chambers on them but I use Remington 223 ammo.

What I was wondering is should I pick up some .308 dies or I find some that are for 7.62x51 which don't seem to exist. From my past experience I will just get some .308 dies and start loading... already have a tone of .308 brass and bullets
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Then, with due respect, you should read also about headspace and loading techniques for the gas guns. Don't rely on any joe telling you what his brother and father in law are doing for reloading!!!!!!!!!


After a few or maybe one only slamfire you will learn why good knowledge and lots of reading is important more so with service rifles than any other gun type.

No offense.


BB
 
No offense taken, I never rely on one persons opinion... of what someones sisters, boyfriends, brother dose. I always check it out.

I thought there is probably some good knowledgeable guys out there. I am getting the feeling though that not alot of people reload for these guns. The guy that said marstar has the surplus ammo well I see every variety but 7.62x51

My ar's took some tinkering to get the cases to fit right in the chambers... never had at slamfire's on any of the rounds I have reloaded.

There isn't much info on this site about headspace... I guess I should wait till I have the gun... I just ordered it, maybe the 308's will fit perfectly. Its going to be a nice tribute build to the SA M21

In the mean time I am going to pick up some .308 dies
 
What I've read in the battle rifle forum is that while the M305s say 308 on the barrel, they're actually 762x51 chambers. The 762 go gauge is larger than the 308 no-go gauge. All 762 ammo will fit in a 308 chamber, they make 'em on the small side, but the brass is much thicker than 308 and safely stretches to the 762 chamber size. Using 308 in a 762 chamber might be dangerous, too much stretching could lead to a case failure, but I think lots of people shoot 308 with no problem. Reloading the stretched cases may be asking for trouble, though.

Get your headspace checked and make a judgement call. Installing a USGI bolt should bring headspace down to a tight 308 or smaller, then you can trim the lugs to get the headspace you want.

Take this with some salt, this is just what I've picked up from reading the MBR forum, my 305 is still unfired. :D
 
Well, I have never reloaded for the things but I can tell you that we're often seeing the nork-14s with headspacing a ways past the .308 no-go guage.

If I remember right mine are all about 7-9 longer than .308 GO. Consequently I have not attempted to reload for them...a lot of guys who do want to reload get a USGI bolt, as they tend to be longer and they shrink the chamber right down to .308 go (or in one famous case 2 thou crush.)

But you know I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what this means exactly. After all the M14 action is so fast, the brass is yanked out while it's still expanding. So I wonder...just how critical is a tight chamber for the reloader? You're not likely to get more than 4 or maybe 5 loads out of them anyway, so I kind of wonder just how much of a problem it would be.

Anyway I would really like to see how things work out for you and what you discover. I have loads and loads of brass waiting to get reloaded...but I've gone and bought a bolt gun as these things make me a little nervous.

So let me know what you figure out!
 
Semi-auto's require FL resizing every time. Other than that, loading for a semi-auto is no different than any other rifle. Case length can be critical, but no moreso than for a bolt action. Trim all your brass to one length, chamfer and de-burr just like you do for any other rifle and your ready to charge and seat the bullet.
"...for 7.62x51 which don't seem to exist..." They don't. I use RCBS (they may be Redding though) .308 Win dies myself. My rifle is a real semi'd M14. Any good die set will do nicely as long as the sizer is an FL die.
If you're using milsurp brass, the primer crimp must be removed first and you must reduce the charge by 10% due to the slightly thicker brass. I suspect you know that though.
Use a 165 grain hunting bullet or 168(up to 600 yards) and/or 175(past 600 yards) grain match bullets with regular large rifle primers(CCI #34 primers are a marketing gimmick) using .308 Win data. Work up a load using IMR4064 or Varget(there other powders, of course, but these tend to give the best and most consistent accuracy) and go shooting. 150's will do with the same powders, but the .308 prefers the heavier bullet.
Headspace has nothing to do with the case. Cartridges do not have headspace.
Slamfires are caused by improperly seated primers, not the rifle. Even with an M1 or M14.
 
sunray said:
Semi-auto's require FL resizing every time. Other than that, loading for a semi-auto is no different than any other rifle. Case length can be critical, but no moreso than for a bolt action. Trim all your brass to one length, chamfer and de-burr just like you do for any other rifle and your ready to charge and seat the bullet.
"...for 7.62x51 which don't seem to exist..." They don't. I use RCBS (they may be Redding though) .308 Win dies myself. My rifle is a real semi'd M14. Any good die set will do nicely as long as the sizer is an FL die.
If you're using milsurp brass, the primer crimp must be removed first and you must reduce the charge by 10% due to the slightly thicker brass. I suspect you know that though.
Use a 165 grain hunting bullet or 168(up to 600 yards) and/or 175(past 600 yards) grain match bullets with regular large rifle primers(CCI #34 primers are a marketing gimmick) using .308 Win data. Work up a load using IMR4064 or Varget(there other powders, of course, but these tend to give the best and most consistent accuracy) and go shooting. 150's will do with the same powders, but the .308 prefers the heavier bullet.
Headspace has nothing to do with the case. Cartridges do not have headspace.
Slamfires are caused by improperly seated primers, not the rifle. Even with an M1 or M14.
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Hi sunray,
I agree with you on most points: FL sizing, crimp removed obviously and I also uniform the primer pocket and make sure all primers are seated well below the bottom of case (no protrusion). Also case trimming, I do every time
and I visually inspect each case before loading for incipient case sep.

The problem is if you combine a few negative points on the same round you reloaded ( too long case, improperly sized and carelessly primed then my friend you may be lucky or not that day.

Point being that the M1A/M305/M14/M305 have floating firing pin and if it hits home before the bolt is fully closed on the cartridge then there you go BIG KABOOM.

BTW: Even you do some of these little mistakes with the AR15/M16 you can brag and say no problem because IT IS NOT A FLOATING FIRING PIN.


regards,


BB
 
Bishopus said:
No, I don't bother. When I see this:

I assume you're a newb, and react accordingly :p

My advice is still the same: shoot a big ol' box of surplus first.
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My mistake I should have been more clear in what I meant, I should have said what caliber dies and cases should I get to start making ammo.
 
Boom-Boom said:
Hi sunray,
I agree with you on most points: FL sizing, crimp removed obviously and I also uniform the primer pocket and make sure all primers are seated well below the bottom of case (no protrusion). Also case trimming, I do every time
and I visually inspect each case before loading for incipient case sep.

The problem is if you combine a few negative points on the same round you reloaded ( too long case, improperly sized and carelessly primed then my friend you may be lucky or not that day.

Point being that the M1A/M305/M14/M305 have floating firing pin and if it hits home before the bolt is fully closed on the cartridge then there you go BIG KABOOM.

BTW: Even you do some of these little mistakes with the AR15/M16 you can brag and say no problem because IT IS NOT A FLOATING FIRING PIN.


regards,


BB
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Ar's leave a firing pin mark on the primers if you slam the bolt closed too... at least mine does I know other guys do to
 
my fav load is 43.9 of ww748 with a 165 -168 grain bullet- groups into 1 inch groups at 100 yards, cci magnum primer, because it's a ball powder- but that's with my isreali "sniper" rifles- the old norinco i have groups a little looser- i would also suggest getting either the rachet chamber brush or a 45 cal rifle brush and adapt it for 90 degree use so you can clean the chamber- as far as cases and dies go, i've got both lee and rcbs dies, and neither outshines the other just more expensive- winchester seems to have the most volume,and is possibly the best brass, but it can be hard to come by- i've found federal to be the worst, with remmy somewhere in between- but, of course, if you can get it, lake city mil spec is what the originals use- this is what i've found- your experiences may vary considerably
 
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"...what caliber dies and cases..." Regular .308 Win dies with an FL sizer die and .308 Win brass. Don't forget the shell holder.
 
Already have a shell holder I got a kit with every single one for any caliber, and I have lots of .308 brass, perfect now I just got to pick up a set of dies and wait for the postman to deliver my new toy.
 
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msg.drew

I use commercial brass and mil brass. The commercial brass last 2 firings as a general rule for me and the military brass like IVI, IMI, and LC lasts to four firing. I keep my load formula simple based on my research online. H4895 powder, hard cup primers (no Federal, yes on CCI and Win), 42.5 grains for 150-155 bullet and 41.5 for 165-168. FL die and very deep primer seating.

When my brass is past the firing limit, which I keep count, their firing life is further lengthened by using a light load. The load, which is what it is referred to, is 13 grains of Red Dot. You need to cycle your bolt for this one. This does a 2-3 inches at a 100m for me with 110 gr Plated FMJs from Frontier. It's cheap, fairly accurate, and fun to shoot, considering 1000 bullets for 65$ and no recoil.
 
ton45-II said:
This does a 2-3 inches at a 100m for me with 110 gr Plated FMJs from Frontier. It's cheap, fairly accurate, and fun to shoot, considering 1000 bullets for 65$ and no recoil.
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Hey, that's the second time I heard of someone using Frontier's in the M14. I'm going to have to give it a try since they are cheap and can pick them up them at CRAFM/CTM or Higginson's.

Still working on my 1-Fired collection and have to get dies and primers still but I was looking for something cheap as it ain't no match gun and wanted something cheap for the gravel pit (YAY! Non-Restrcteds!!!) or CRAFM/CTM since it's only 50m. :) I was actually thinking of casting with GC's but Frontiers might be the way to go. Can save my ingots for practice handgun bullets that way.

Do you think they'll go good with a reduced load of Varget? (Only because I got lots for .223). Hodgdon says 48-50C grains for a jacketed bullet so figure 15-20% less for plated should put it around 40-46 grains. Anybody tried yet?
 
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