Reloading for the M14s/M305/M1A

[Doc M]

Hi All -

I'd like to begin shooting something that closely approximates the M118LR round used by US forces in their M1A/M14/M21/M25 type rifles. M118LR is hard to come by on this side of the border (at least it is for me; I'm open to leads if anyone knows of a good supplier!) so I'm planning on duplicating the load myself.

Searching various M1A-related posts on the web, I've found a few good ideas:

1 - 42.5gn Varget, 175gn SMK, 2.800-2.830" COAL (2.830" preferable)
This load was proposed as a substitute for the M118LR round, using what one forum member had on hand.

2 - 43gn RL15, 175gn SMK, 2.800-2.830" COAL (2.830" preferable)
This load was the median of 3 disassembled genuine M118LR rounds from Lake City in 2003, posted by one member of another forum.

Further to these, I found a few loads that I might play with as well:

3 - 42gn 4895, 168 SMK, 2.830" COAL - M852 MATCH
4 - 41.5gn 4064, 168 SMK, 2.830" COAL - reportedly very accurate, but no stated military equivalent.

For those who reload for their M14s/M1A style rifles, what are your thoughts on these load workups? Based on my experience with my bolt-gun in .308 (Savage Model 10 FCP HS Precision, 45gn Varget, 165 GameKing, 2.710" COAL - a seated-short, ultra-dependably feeding round I use for hunting) these loads don't seem unreasonable given the added thickness of most military brass. I would be loading all of these into Lake City LC06, 07, 08 brass - of which I have approximately 1,000 pieces.

Also, two final questions for the M1A reloading gurus - should I bother using a small base die, and do you recommend using a cannelured bullet in lieu of the MatchKing/GameKing type projectiles? Anyone getting by perfectly well without a small-base die (I assume so, since the Norc M14s rifles aren't known for ultra-tight chambers) and without recoil-induced bullet shift?

I'm not a reloading rookie, I just haven't loaded for an autoloading rifle before... plenty of .45ACP for my pistols though!

Thanks in advance!
-M

 

[carbonrod]

I wouldn't use Varget, or Rl15. I personally prefer H4895.

I also wouldn't shoot a bunch of m118LR type loads in my m14. There is discussion about its ill effects on the oprod, and I see no real upside as I do not shoot my m14s past 500m.

Start with this if you want an accuracy load:
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf
powder has changed a bit since then, and your brass will differ, but it is a good start.

If you want a plinking load, start with the cheapest conical 30 cal tips you can find, and the lower end of a H4895 charge.

As for tips, I mostly use 168 gr SMKs, but have used a variety of different 150, and 165 gr hunting tips.

I use a small base die, and lightly crimp my loads. Some crimp them heavily. Some not at all. With 5rnd mags, I don't think it is much of an issue either way.

 

[Holleyman]

Mystic has some good information regarding M1A reloading here:
http://mysticplayer.netfirms.com/articles/m305.htm

 

[scrubfox]

I too believe the Varget/175g is too much to ask of your op rod. I reload SMK 168's and Hornady 168 Hpbt Match in front of 41.5g of H4895 OAL 2.800. Good accuracy. Have tried 155 Sierra and Nosler pills without much luck(my rifle) but some others swear by them.

 

[Doc M]

Good info and links, thanks guys!

I have a pound of 4064 that isn't going to get used for anything else, so I'll probably load up some plinkers with that stuff... mixed cases, etc. and all commercial. But as for the LC brass, I'm getting the sense that H4895 (or IMR4895) are the way to go.

-M

 

[schick]

I have always used 4895 when loading for my Norinco M14S. I never crimp, and always charge closer to the lower end of the chart instead of hot. I have had great results with bullets weights at 165 or the good ol' 168's

 

[chris1974]

Good info thanks

 

[Quiet]

I've never used small base dies for the m14, or any other semi-auto. Just full-length size all the way down to the shell-holder. The military chamber is cut large anyways. A small base die will just shorten the life of your brass by working it harder.

 

[Canuck44]

I shoot lead cast bullets, way cheaper and way more fun. No I don't crimp them.

Take Care

Bob

 

[Cerdan]

I don't know much on the subject but I thought I would add that you can crimp non-cannelured bullets with Lee's Factory Crimp Die. I use one when loading non-cannelured bullets in .223 for my SL8 to avoid the risk of bullet setback.

 

[rnbra-shooter]

Do you want to shoot beyond 600 yards? If you want to shoot 900 & 1000 yards, then definitely go with the 175s. Otherwise 168s or 175s are equally fine - choose whichever one is more available, or more accurate, etc). Both are very well-known bullets, and have lots of known-good data for them. All of the loads you've listed look pretty sensible.

Nominal magazine length for .308Win is 2.800". I don't know what actual magazine length ends up being in practice for M14s, but presumably the recommendations of 2.830" are based on being able to "get away with" something that is longer than nominal official max magazine length. Sierra 168s and 175s should be fairly insensitive to jump - you may well find that 2.800" shoots fine, as does 2.830". Don't worry about crimping, ordinary full neck tension ought to me more than enough.

I would suggest that you try a regular FL die first, and only go to a small-base die if you need to (and there's a good chance that it won't be necessary). I found that Zediker article a pretty good one to explain the differences in loading for a gas gun vs. a bolt gun (e.g. use good tough brass, and accept the fact that it won't last long).

A rifle's gas system has no idea what the weight of the bullet it that is going down the barrel. All that it sees is a certain amount of gas, at a certain pressure. If you have a reasonable amount of powder (say 45 grains or less in a .308), that develops ordinary max pressure, then your port pressures will be within spec.

Duplicating M118LR or M852 ammo is quite straightforward (i.e. it's just good handloads with a S175 or S168), you are well on the way to doing it. This ammo ought to shoot to the limit of your rifle's capabilities. Have fun, and let us know how it works for you.

 

[Doc M]

Awesome posts, all - if I'm going to reach out beyond 600yd, it's going to be with my Savage 10FCP in .308 (for which I have a KILLER max load worked up that just sizzles).

I'm glad to see that you fellas think I'm mostly on the right track - I like to fact-check my figures when I "data mine" other sites for info like this... you never know what some idiot has posted on the internet!

I'm new to gas guns in .308 (and am very familiar with my AR but don't handload for it at present - but have components on the way), so I appreciate the "double check" you have all done for me. Just another reason I love CGN!

-M