Reloading For The Mighty M One Four!!!

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One Lung Wonder

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Oh my god.

Are The Usual Suspects turd polishing again, or is this beast going to be this hard to load for??? Good grief! So...my regular .308 dies don't look like they are going to cut it. Either they won't knock that shoulder back far enough, or they won't size the brass down small enough to load into the chamber! The shipping tag in the box says this Springer has been headspaced to 1.631" according to GI specs. My brass is trimmed to spec.

Fine, says I: are there any suppliers here that can supply small base .308 dies? And where do I get a headspace gage from? I saw the ones Hornady makes, are they any good?

I have been up to my ears in M14 lore: one toad says the only real powders you need are the '4895's'. Aaaaaand - guess which powders everyone is out of right now here in Edmonton! And it just keeps getting better:

I have a metric ton of .308 brass but none of it is any good because it is all too soft - gotta get brass from some outfit called 'Lake City' or some damned thing. Gotta have a chamber gage too, a primer pocket uniformer, primer pocket swager (mil brass is the best for these beasts apparently), and special hard-cup primers because the 4000 Federal primers I have now are too soft and can cause slam fires.:bangHead:

Boys, I have reloaded for ALL my guns and I'll be damned if I am gonna quit now...and, if you're like me....you KNOW how many gas bags there are around (besides Yours Truly) that will orate, pontificate and BLOVIATE about guns without the slightest idea of what they're talking about! How much of this stuff is for real? Looks like I am gonna be on factory ammo until I build up a reasonable stash of brass...but do you hard-core M14 geeks have any advice for the reloader that is new to this beast? Who are the best suppliers for the M14? I know with my AR, my Tavor, and my SL8 I just scooped once fired brass out of the can at the range, took it home, stoked it up according to the manual and away I went. Why is this rifle such a hemorrhoid to work with?!?!:confused:

Looks to me like I am going to need to re-fit my reloading set up if I want to re-arm with the M14. I dunno whether I should be happy about the prospect or not!
 
no you dont.

take your brass holder from your reloading rig and stone .002 off the top see where that gets you.

The only brass I avoid is the brass from Federals bulk 308 in a ammo box. I also avoid their primers. Apparently there is a certain lot or three of win primers which have had issues. current production is ok

pay special attention to cleaning primer pockets and how deep the primers seat. they should be a thou or two deeper then the surrounding brass.
 
check your dies! For a while I thought that the .308 was some mysterious super secret calibre. Turns out that I was using a neck size only resizing die????????? Just saying, if I done it mebby utoo.
 
Google reloading for the M14 then, after peeling self off ceiling, relax. Follow good reloading practice - avoid Fed primers (too soft), full length resize, use brass NO MORE than FOUR times and use bullets from 150-168 g with (ideally) 4895 powder BUT other powder is OK even Varget contrary to what is written. No need to crimp - excellent idea if using 20 or 30 round mags but since a custodial sentence is a discouragement I assume you will use 5 rounders :)


Relax.
 
I reload for my M1A, and will be for my ordered LRB M25. I use federal brass. Always FL resize for any semi to ensure the rifle will operator properly. I haven't unified the primer pockets (perhaps I should start regardless of what gun I"m loading for). I use CCI primers and IMR4895 powder. If you can get the military primers, use them, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. Federal primers are more sensative, so use CCI's. If factory ammo works in these rifles, so should factory primers. I haven't had a slam fire and I'm not really worried about it. Crimping bullets in semi autos has never seemed like necessity to me. I've reloaded for many other semi autos, and have always used match bullets that didn't have a cannaluer. However, I do load to the factory spec COAL. Plenty of people shoot match bullets out of their M14 and nobody every has a problem. I think the powder is the biggest issue because the burn rate has to be just right for the gas system. However again, plenty of people shoot varget or other loads in their M14. Nothing ever blows up as a result. I would try to get your hands on some IMR4895 or H4895. Contact Budget Reload Supplies (site sponcer) that's where I got mine a month ago.
 
I just made up my first batch of reloads for the M14. I am using Norma and Remington commercial brass, and Winchester primers because I read that Win and CCI are the hardest commercial primers. Full length sized.
No crimp; I have seven round mags, and don't really anticipate any issues, but we will see.
The bullet is 150 grain Nosler BT's with no cannelure anyway.
I have loaded with Varget and IMR4895.

I get 3 inch five shot groups at 100 metres with Wolf/Barnaul 140 g ammo and the peep sights. We will see how these loads go with a scope, I will shoot them in the morning and let you know.
 
I just made up my first batch of reloads for the M14. I am using Norma and Remington commercial brass, and Winchester primers because I read that Win and CCI are the hardest commercial primers. Full length sized.
No crimp; I have seven round mags, and don't really anticipate any issues, but we will see.
The bullet is 150 grain Nosler BT's with no cannelure anyway.
I have loaded with Varget and IMR4895.

I get 3 inch five shot groups at 100 metres with Wolf/Barnaul 140 g ammo and the peep sights. We will see how these loads go with a scope, I will shoot them in the morning and let you know.
 
I have an SAI National Match that I load for as well as an M305.
My chamber is also cut to the same 1.631" spec as is yours.
I have used brass from Federal, Lake City, PMC, and PSD.
I have no issue sizing my brass with my good old Lee full length sizing die.
I use the L.E. Wilson drop in headspace gauge and size in between the 2 ledges and they chamber perfectly.
Measure the base of your cartridges because that is probably where your problem lies.
All will work fine and have nearly the same internal case volume when measured with water.

If you know what you're doing you can use federal primers.
I use 210M Federal Gold Medal Match and it's not because I don't have CCi primers because I have a couple thousand CCI BR-2 primers on hand.
I'm seating my primers 0.008" below flush, which is slightly below SAAMI spec, but after a few thousand rounds between all of my .308 rifles without a misfire or slam fire I would say it works just fine.

Instead of honing down your shellholder Redding makes a set of shellholders with different
Depths for this exact reason.
http://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/35-competition-shellholder-sets

As far as powder goes IMR 4064 is another great m14 powder and that is all that I use in mine.

Best of luck.
 
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Gobc said:
I reload for my M1A, and will be for my ordered LRB M25. I use federal brass. Always FL resize for any semi to ensure the rifle will operator properly. I haven't unified the primer pockets (perhaps I should start regardless of what gun I"m loading for). I use CCI primers and IMR4895 powder. If you can get the military primers, use them, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. Federal primers are more sensative, so use CCI's. If factory ammo works in these rifles, so should factory primers. I haven't had a slam fire and I'm not really worried about it. Crimping bullets in semi autos has never seemed like necessity to me. I've reloaded for many other semi autos, and have always used match bullets that didn't have a cannaluer. However, I do load to the factory spec COAL. Plenty of people shoot match bullets out of their M14 and nobody every has a problem. I think the powder is the biggest issue because the burn rate has to be just right for the gas system. However again, plenty of people shoot varget or other loads in their M14. Nothing ever blows up as a result. I would try to get your hands on some IMR4895 or H4895. Contact Budget Reload Supplies (site sponcer) that's where I got mine a month ago.
Click to expand...
I would never recommend Varget for an M14 and it's not because I don't have any, because I have plenty.
There are reports of people bending OP rods with Varget sometimes more than once.
I have IMR 4064 and H4895 for the M14's.
Go here and download Zediker's guide to reloading for the match M14.
https://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html
 
I do all of the brass prep as perscribed in The Lore, then after that I just dump them into a lyman case gauge after every resize to make certain the length is good.

I use the military primers because up until now (I see canada ammo has Russian stuff for cheap these days...I must try some), they've only been a scant few $ more than any others, so why not?

Then I go against The Lore and load mine with cast bullets. Thus far RL7 and H335 are showing promise with the RCBS 160-Sil
 
OP - share with us any wisdom gleaned off of your post on the Firing Line as a lot of the guys here won't, necessarily, be members of that site and the Yanks have some expertise with this issue for sure.
 
thump_rrr said:
I would never recommend Varget for an M14 and it's not because I don't have any, because I have plenty.
There are reports of people bending OP rods with Varget sometimes more than once.
I have IMR 4064 and H4895 for the M14's.
Go here and download Zediker's guide to reloading for the match M14.
https://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html
Click to expand...


Ohh, good to know. Thanks. I read the zediker document as well, and that is why I'm using IMR4895. Next powder I use will be H4895 because it's a hodgson extreme powder, and I like the temperature stability of those powders. Good advice, varget is out.
 
Loading for an M305(you likely don't have an M-14. M-14's are prohibited in Canada. An M305 doesn't have a match grade barrel, etc., so don't bother with match bullets either. Unless you put one on.) is no different than loading for any semi-auto. You do not need Lake City(that's the U.S. military's ammo maker.) brass, CCI "milspec" primers or anything else special. Regular components will work just fine. Nor is crimping required, but it doesn't hurt. Crimping is only required with heavy recoiling cartridges and with lever actions. Semi's don't really need it. If you opt to use it, think light crimp only.
You absolutely must full length resize every time(use an FL or Small Base die. It's one or the other. An SB die resizes a few thou smaller than an FL. Makes no difference which one you use.) and watch the OAL and case lengths. Trim only when the case gets longer than the max length given in your manual. Don't forget to chamfer after trimming. Other than that it's the same as loading any cartridge. The brass will last a lot longer than 4 times too. Unless it's Federal brass. Federal is known for being softer than other brands. Good brass, otherwise.
Use 150 to 180 grain bullets with IMR or H 4895, IMR4064(more consistent accuracy than the 4895's) or Varget. There are other powders that will be fine too. The .308 loves 165 grain hunting bullets. Assuming hunting is part of the plan. A 165 will kill any game you care to hunt. I wouldn't bother with 'match' anything for a stock M305(or a stock M1A. Higher grade M1A's are a different game.). The rifle is not a target rifle.
M-14 style rifles do not have the alleged issue with the ammo bending op rods either. Mind you, in 40 plus years, I've never once seen nor heard of anybody's M1 Rifle being damaged by the ammo alone. This was never promulgated in any publication prior to there being an Internet.
Headspace guages have nothing whatever to do with reloading. Cartridges do not have headspace. Headspace is a rifle manufacturing tolerance only.
Carlsen, your 7 round mags are prohibited devices that must be pinned to 5. A scope won't make your rifle shoot better either. Three inches at 100 isn't great accuracy, but the Wolf ammo isn't great either. You need to work up the load, as well. I suspect those 150's will surprise you when you have a load your rifle likes.
 
One Lung Wonder said:
Oh my god.

Are The Usual Suspects turd polishing again, or is this beast going to be this hard to load for??? Good grief! So...my regular .308 dies don't look like they are going to cut it. Either they won't knock that shoulder back far enough, or they won't size the brass down small enough to load into the chamber! The shipping tag in the box says this Springer has been headspaced to 1.631" according to GI specs. My brass is trimmed to spec.

Fine, says I: are there any suppliers here that can supply small base .308 dies? And where do I get a headspace gage from? I saw the ones Hornady makes, are they any good?

I have been up to my ears in M14 lore: one toad says the only real powders you need are the '4895's'. Aaaaaand - guess which powders everyone is out of right now here in Edmonton! And it just keeps getting better:

I have a metric ton of .308 brass but none of it is any good because it is all too soft - gotta get brass from some outfit called 'Lake City' or some damned thing. Gotta have a chamber gage too, a primer pocket uniformer, primer pocket swager (mil brass is the best for these beasts apparently), and special hard-cup primers because the 4000 Federal primers I have now are too soft and can cause slam fires.:bangHead:
Click to expand...

Make sure you are full length sizing and try screwing your die down another 1/8 of a turn or maybe a touch more to be SURE you are bumping the shoulder as much as possible. Just 0.002"-0.003" can be all you need to sort the problem.

You can use 4895, 4064 or Varget, among others. They are all very similar in burn rate. The Varget is a touch slower so don't go balls out with it, keep loads within book specs. Lots of bolt action shooters step on the .308 well above book max, do that with the M305 and you will beat it to death.

Federal brass is usually a bit softer than the other brands but will work OK, it just doesn't last as many reloading cycles. Federal primers are definitely softer than the others and may contribute to slam fire issues. Personally I only use CCI primers for my rifles and don't plan on changing anytime soon.


enefgee said:
Don't forget to crimp! Uncrimped bullets in 308 autoloaders are a very bad thing.
Click to expand...

I don't crimp for my Garand, why is the M-305 any different?


thump_rrr said:
I would never recommend Varget for an M14 and it's not because I don't have any, because I have plenty.
There are reports of people bending OP rods with Varget sometimes more than once.
I have IMR 4064 and H4895 for the M14's.
Go here and download Zediker's guide to reloading for the match M14.
https://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html
Click to expand...

Varget is only slightly slower than IMR4064. If people were bending op rods they were probably loading very hot. Either IMR4064 or the 4895's better duplicate military loads, though.


Mark
 
sunray said:
Carlsen, your 7 round mags are prohibited devices that must be pinned to 5. A scope won't make your rifle shoot better either. Three inches at 100 isn't great accuracy, but the Wolf ammo isn't great either. You need to work up the load, as well. I suspect those 150's will surprise you when you have a load your rifle likes.
Click to expand...


Sunray, I am in New Zealand :)
No, the scope is not necessary, but I am testing my reloads so I reduce variables as much as I can. But I am an enthusiastic iron sights shooter by nature.
Three inches at 100 isn't great but at least the rifle is doing what it was designed to do, and doing it with dodgy ammo to boot. We will see what it can actually achieve shortly when I manage to get some time to get back out....
 
Small base sized FC Match cases 4 times and then FL sized. Uniformed flash hole and primer pocket.
42.8 gr IMR 4064
SMK 175
Fed 210M Primers
 
MC One Shot said:
Small base sized FC Match cases 4 times and then FL sized. Uniformed flash hole and primer pocket.
42.8 gr IMR 4064
SMK 175
Fed 210M Primers
Click to expand...
Have you chronographed the load?
The reason I ask is because I was using the exact same components in my Savage bolt gun to 41.7gr and I was getting a sticky bolt.
 
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