i also ck out used books, etc, for OLDER manuals- a lot of times the latest loads have been "lawyerized" so the top end load listed isn't really the top end load- it's been knocked down a few grains so the publishers/manufacturers won't get into trouble- the nice thing about the lyman is that they list a PRESSURE reading as well- point being that some of the loads listed in some of the "new " manuals were starting points in the old ones and the new data won't function some of my rifles at all- ie one load for the 308 in a new manual lists the starting point at 40 grains, top end at 42 for the 180- my m14 ( the real thing) won't function at 40, , does at 42, and gets reliable at 44- on the other hand , the old manual lists the top end at 46, and i see pressure at 44.5-