reloading molds and diameter

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bbuffett

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OK I'm starting to learn something:p but little enough.
I have been casting pistol 357, 10 mm, 45 acp, 44 mag for some years now.
I just bought the size ( caliber and weight) mold needed and went from there...maybe had to resize the 45 acp to fit in one of my tight chamber 1911s but thats OK. I started to reload for the 45/70.....naturally I get a .457 mold....but with plain base I get leading and keyholing at minimal velocities ( 340g bullet with 12gr Unique) . I am told to resize to a .459 of .460.
The problem is how do I do this with a .457 (actually .4575 cast ) bullet especially when I can only see .457 sizing dies from Lee. ( I did see speciality dies made by ? somebody in the states) but even if I got them I don't think they would or could make my .457 LARGER????
Does it help to cast with different alloy...more tin, linotype ???
Any help would be appreciated.
PS: The gun is very accurate with store bought ammo AND my reloads with MT Chambers .459 bullets
Thanks
bbuffett
 
bbuffett
lee mould #90268, .459 dia. 405 gr. hollow base.
probably casts at .460.
you need a lot of bullet riding in rifling to stabalize correctly. What you shoot now is under sized and possibly to light.The under-sized situation is your main problem. Have you measured(slugged) you rifles bore dimensions?
They (lee) also has a 500 grain .459 spire point.
Your rifle may engrave soft lead bullets as it is based on an original b.p. cartridge,but you can get the hardness up very easily
sgt rock
 
Harder bullets generally cast slightly wider......don't know about lee equip.; and want to keep it that way......In our bus. we use RCBS and Lyman Equip. and have accumulated about 30 diff. size sizers, to get the most accuracy out of any given cast bullet, ie: we supply .45 cal rifle bullets in .458,.459,.460.....some good moulds cast bullets .003 oversize(NEI,Jones, Hoch) some only.001(Lyman, Saeco)....with proper equip. it is possible to run a .457 bullet into a .458 die and "bump it up" to the die's dia. We can also alter bullets nose with diff. top punches!!
 
So I have a decision to make...which is better the .459 405gr hollow base mold from Lee or maybe the .457 500gr with gas check. Would the GC ensure a good seal as the larger hollow base and at the same time allow me to shoot higher velocities then the hollow base?
Also as Ben pointed out I could go with a very good quality mold from NEI that will cast to .460 but spending ++$100 USD plus handles seem a little much for this right now
 
For your situation, I would go with the .459 405 gr hollow base. The .459 diameter should fill the grooves, and if your groove diameter is oversize, the hollow base design will be expanded by the gas pressure to fill the grooves and get a good bite on the bullet.

Interesting to see another .45-70 shooter running casts with Unique powder. I am using a 405 gr cast with 14 to 15 gr of Unique.

Do you use any wadding material to retain the powder at the primer end of the case?
 
lee moulds

Have several Lee moulds, amongst others, for the 45/70. and have had good results with same, especially the lee 500 grain " roundnose" with gas check, 400 grain R. Nose, plain base.
I shoot a single shot #3 Ruger which loves the heavy weights, however if your rifle is a lever gun, you can have overall cartridge length issues useing 500 grainers, and they may not cycle through the action nor chamber in your rifle with out being seated deeper than usual, but it can be done.
Useing straight wheel weights, my 500 gr Lee mould casts .459 ish. ... with linotype its less. Same holds true for the 400 gr plain base Lee.......I dont size them at all so as not to lose the larger diameter, and apply gas checks by hand.


You will probably lose the the key- holing if you go up a few more grains of unique ( unless your mould is under .457)
Have shot to 1800 fps with accuracy using a 350 gr.( plain base ) with a "reversed" gas check under this bullets plain base and to 2000 fps with the Lee 400 plain base also.........no leading ..... however most loads I use at the range are 13-1400 fps plinkers.
The reversed gas check method may assist you in reducing any leading issues in your gun with any plain base Lee mould you might purchase.. but would not reccomend its useage with the the 400 hollow base mould

hs 4570..................your mileage may vary
 
bbuffett said:
The problem is how do I do this with a .457 (actually .4575 cast ) bullet especially when I can only see .457 sizing dies from Lee. ( I did see speciality dies made by ? somebody in the states) but even if I got them I don't think they would or could make my .457 LARGER????
Does it help to cast with different alloy...more tin, linotype ???
Any help would be appreciated.
PS: The gun is very accurate with store bought ammo AND my reloads with MT Chambers .459 bullets
Thanks
bbuffett
Click to expand...


Firstly a copper gun is not a cast gun and visa versa. That is to say every shred of copper has gotta go.preferably with a cleaner like wipeout. Now onto your situation. With the very odd exception you can typically expect magnum pistol velocities out of lee rifle molds. Lee has yet for the most part to come out of the 1800's on 45 cal rifle mold design. Get yourself atleast an rcbs or if you can lay out 132$ I'd recommend an LBT.Get one in a FN that doesnt use lee's crappy step to drive. Get one that drives right off the ogive.Make it a gas check design.Use wheel weights+2% tin,drop em in water out of the mold ,let cure for 3 day min.,If the gun chambers 459'ers then feed er 459'ers.Meaning ordering a mold that drops .460 with the alloy,and you size to .459.You also buy a case neck expander to suit. Cast does not like a ton of neck squeeze.It wants the throat full,and as slow a powder as you can get your velocity with.PS,there is one thing Lee does right,they caught on to the concept of frontal sizing,so lay out 15$ and do your sizing in a lee sizing die.I know they only come in 457. You can put it in a lathe or drill and very slowly emery it out so it turns out a 459er.PSS lubing backward in a lube sizer is ok.I wouldnt advocate sizing that way
 
thecollector said:
For your situation, I would go with the .459 405 gr hollow base. The .459 diameter should fill the grooves, and if your groove diameter is oversize, the hollow base design will be expanded by the gas pressure to fill the grooves and get a good bite on the bullet.

Interesting to see another .45-70 shooter running casts with Unique powder. I am using a 405 gr cast with 14 to 15 gr of Unique.

Do you use any wadding material to retain the powder at the primer end of the case?
Click to expand...

I don't use wadding material or filler with the unique.... It was meant to be a comfortable target load around 1500 fps. I use RL-7 for hunting loads with the 480g bullet.

The gas check backwards for plain base bullets sounds like a good idea but I wondered if it would EVER not clear the barrel if loose and become a problem the next shot? With such a small load of Unique it also could twist around in the case before ever shooting it?

I may get the hollow base mould cheap and should work or I guess I could spend $150 USD for a good mold like NEI and get a .460 mould but just getting into rifle reloading and trying to decide if I want to do this on a more regular basis....the reason for the Unique load in the first place (use it for pistol) but saying that it is a nice mild load for plinking if I can get it to group better.
But I agree spend right spend once ;) . How many Lee moulds to get a good NEI:(
 
bbufett

I only use reversed gas checks in " straight walled" type cases, 45/70...444 marlin...44 mag and .357 maximum all with plain based bullets.
The reversed gas check is slightly larger than bullets diameter and once put in straight ,about a 1/4 inch , into the case ,the bullet seated on top will push the gas check into the case. This is not a loose fit.. if you" pull "the bullet to have a look inside the case you will still see your gas check wedged in to the depth that the bullet seated it .............could it come loose or stick in the barrel....not in the few thousand i've shot but nothing is 100% and if this practice sounds unsafe to you plse disregard.

Some people have had little or no success with one brand of molds or another
and prefer the mold that works for them.....I've had good success with Lee molds in the a/n staight wall cases and with 180 and 200 gr. 30 cal lee gas check in 30-30. 308 s.and 30-06s, 303 brit and 303 epps. ... from 1400 to 2000fps and all are accurate beyond mag pistol velocities.........have had good success with NEI, Lyman ,RCBS too.
All results were achieved with fast pistol powders like Unique, A2400, ... pistol/shotgun powders....reddot , blue dot and fast rifle powder like imr 4227, Reloader 7 and Imr 4198.....at about $30-35$ a mold it may be worth trying.

hs4570............your mileage may vary
 
Not so......the most accurate cast bullets used for higher velocity are all gas checked and the gas check needs to be crimped on and be of the right size or you will get inconsistant results on target, gas checks can come off after leaving the barrel or they can stay on as long as they do it consistantly!!
 
gas check

Most of my molds are gas check types and concurr that highest velocities with accuracy will not come with plain base cast.

Merely wished to advise that if all you have is a plain base bullet and your getting leading that a reversed gas check in a straight wall case worked for me ......and they don't stick to the bullet if you were wondering ............my FIRST chronograph will confirm this.....

hs4570.....your mileage may vary
 
ben hunchak said:
Not so......the most accurate cast bullets used for higher velocity are all gas checked and the gas check needs to be crimped on and be of the right size or you will get inconsistant results on target, gas checks can come off after leaving the barrel or they can stay on as long as they do it consistantly!!
Click to expand...

HOGWASH . You stick em backward on plane bases:ban: :ar15: :dancingbanana:
 
blindside said:
HOGWASH . You stick em backward on plane bases:ban: :ar15: :dancingbanana:
Click to expand...


Looking into the backward gas check system...from what I read on the web there are two types of GCs...Lyman (slip on) and Hornaby (crimp type)...opinion was the Lyman were better to use backwards.
Is there a difference if you have used both?
Where can I buy GCs in Canada?
Thanks
bbuffett
 
gas checks

Lyman and Hornady both made gas checks however I.ve been told that Hornady is the only company presently producing same in the U.S.A.
Have only used the Hornady version and can't say i've seen a lyman version for sale out here on the West Coast.
I buy mine mail-order from Wholesale sports in Calgary as no gun shops locally carry them.

Mr Garretts opinion of the Lyman Gould 330 gr. H.Pt. flat base as a very good mold to own is also shared by me..in my 45 /70 a #3 Ruger and 45.7 gr. Re 7 @ 1760 FPS( Avg. of 3 shots) get 1.2 in groups on a good day.........My mold casts 350 grains avg weight as I lent the mold out years ago and the hollow point pin was lost.........I just drop a B.B into the mold and it plugs the hole and then I fill with metal of choice.....yes half the BB is in the cast bullet and half protrudes...........if filled with just soft lead and shot under 1400 fps the BB does assist in producing expansion...not reccomending this practice but ....it works for me.

hs4570................your mileage may vary
 
Sorry but you're off base......gas checks are of no advantage and will only hurt accuracy if not used properly.....Plain based bullets preform best without backwards gc and are not necessary at up to 2000fps if the bullet is a good fit in the bore and hard enough....if you need a gas check get a mould that is cut for one......not to mention the damage they would do to your chronograph!!!
 
ben hunchak said:
Sorry but you're off base.....if you need a gas check get a mould that is cut for one.
Click to expand...

No No, buy the cheapest any ol thing you can. If its cut for a gas check so be it.If not just shove some in the case. Geesh, didnt you know that:rolleyes:
 
mr hunchak

If you feel the " reversed gas check" offends you or is unsafe don't use it.


You drive a chev, I drive a Dodge, while I chose a different path than you ,I still arrived at my destination, no leading and accuracy.....

hs4570.................your mileage did vary
 
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