Reloading myths????

thegunnut

thegunnut

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I have been "resurrecting" some of my varmint rigs that have not seen use for many years (25+) and have begun load development using "modern" components.
On reading some old Handloader mags, I came across an article which made some statements which raised my eyebrows.
The 2 which attracted my attn the most were:
1/ All rifles shoot best groupings at max or near max loads.
2/ Neck sizing does not yield as accurate a cartridge as a fl die backed off so that it only partially sizes the body, and sizes most of the neck.
The explanation for this one was that an "unsupported" case would have the neck moved out of concentric during the sizing operation.
Before I start measuring run out on case necks, I thought I would seek learned opinions.
Both of these statements have proven contrary to my personal experience, but hey... I have been wrong before.

Opinions / experiences ???
Love to hear them.
 
you need a small charge of fast burning powder to "properly ignite" a large charge of slow burning powder- boy was that one EVER WRONG
 
I have found Remington 700's like to be loaded to the "NUTZ".
I have outside neck reamed .224, .243, .257, .264, .277, .284, .308, and .338 for hunting purposes. Looking for about 75% of the neck being reamed versus all of the neck and then use a FL die backed off so only the calibre of the bullet grips the bullet. For a .22-250 the neck is sized about .225 of the neck and a .338 Win Mag about a 1/3 of an inch. This is something I have found to work but fully anticipate disagreement.

Some people would disagree with the Lord's Prayer . . . if they knew the words!
 
t-star said:
you need a small charge of fast burning powder to "properly ignite" a large charge of slow burning powder- boy was that one EVER WRONG
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Actually that was the recommended method of priming the .378 Weatherby in the days before Federal 215s; not sure how you prevent the two powders from mixing when the cartridges were jostled around on the field though.

I recall reading that ball powders can't shoot with extruded, I've proven that one untrue, in my rifles atleast.
 
Boomer said:
Actually that was the recommended method of priming the .378 Weatherby in the days before Federal 215s; not sure how you prevent the two powders from mixing when the cartridges were jostled around on the field though.

I recall reading that ball powders can't shoot with extruded, I've proven that one untrue, in my rifles atleast.
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believe you'd have load the fast one first, and then fill the rest of it with slow, so there would be no "airgap" between the bullet and the powder- ie amost a compressed charge; with no room to move , it could work
 
1/ All rifles shoot best groupings at max or near max loads.

That one is usually true, in my experience. I've heard that most modern propellants are designed to operate within certain parameters and give the best, most uniform performance within these designed specs. And that's usually right up near the top pressure range. It's certainly a universal practice within the benchrest community to use loads well in excess of common SAAMI pressures, and they're all about maximizing accuracy.
 
"1/ All rifles shoot best groupings at max or near max loads.

That one is usually true,"


Damn, Prosper beat me to it! I was going to say that, especially about the referrence to bench rest shooters.
If anybody is doubtful of this, I have the book, "The Accurate Rifle," by Warren Page, and can post some quotes on bench rest loadings.
For those who don't know, Warren Page won the US National Match bench rest shooting championship nine times.
He was also a top contender in long range rifle shooting and in his spare time developed some notable wildcat cartridges.

Also, match ammunition, whether for military or civilian match shooting, is loaded heavier than is standard commercial ammunition, or military ammunition.
 
The myth I am just getting over after buying my first reloading kit is one that gets to the very core of reloading.

"Reloading is almost impossibly hard and can be quite dangerous"

I can't believe how wrong that is, I find reloading really enjoyable and not all too complicated at all. After some time and tinkering, and coming crawling back here for advice I have started to get a handle on this whole reloading thing.

And yes, if you are not sure what you are doing or go at the whole process rather haphazardly then yes, it of course can be dangerous. I actually almost made a big boo boo when I double charged a 45 colt case with a max charge of Alliant Unique. Luckily I caught my mistake and no damage was done, but I can see why people could be afraid or intimidated by handloading
 
Ridge_Fridge said:
The myth I am just getting over after buying my first reloading kit is one that gets to the very core of reloading.

"Reloading is almost impossibly hard and can be quite dangerous"

I can't believe how wrong that is, I find reloading really enjoyable and not all too complicated at all. After some time and tinkering, and coming crawling back here for advice I have started to get a handle on this whole reloading thing.

And yes, if you are not sure what you are doing or go at the whole process rather haphazardly then yes, it of course can be dangerous. I actually almost made a big boo boo when I double charged a 45 colt case with a max charge of Alliant Unique. Luckily I caught my mistake and no damage was done, but I can see why people could be afraid or intimidated by handloading
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Reloading is like crossing the street. If you train yourself to habitually look both ways before crossing you'll probably not step in front of a bus.
 
If you can follow instructions properly, it's no more difficult (or dangerous) than cooking your own food. If you're the type of person who will burn down his house trying to make some grilled cheese sandwitches, then maybe reloading isn't for you. But if you can read, and carefully follow instuctions without cutting corners or gettign sloppy with your measurements, then you'll be fine
 
prosper said:
If you can follow instructions properly, it's no more difficult (or dangerous) than cooking your own food. If you're the type of person who will burn down his house trying to make some grilled cheese sandwitches, then maybe reloading isn't for you. But if you can read, and carefully follow instuctions without cutting corners or gettign sloppy with your measurements, then you'll be fine
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actally, if you can follow a recipe, you can reload- it's NOTHING more than that- it's the STIGMA that you're playing with GUNPOWDER that scares people- that can of gas you keep for the lawnmoWEr is MORE DANGEROUS
 
1. "Everyone should start out with a single stage press."

You should start out with a press that matches your needs. If you are shooting 100 rounds or more of pistol ammo every week, you will be spending a lot of time reloading if you use a single stage press. It is much better to buy a good progressive and start off running one case at a time through it until you are comfortable with operating it. I bought my Dillon RL550B when I first took up reloading and had no difficulty learning how to operate it.


2. "Progressive presses cannot produce accurate rifle ammunition"

I can load .223 ammo that is capable of approximately 5/8 MOA 10 shot groups out of my CZ 527 Varmint. Granted, a progressive may not be ideal for loading for very long range (over 600 yards) and some powders don't meter well through a measure, but a progressive will work fine for the vast majority of rifle reloading.


3. "Clean your primer pockets"

The above groups from item #2 are made with brass with dirty primer pockets.
 
My favorites are that you have to load like you work in a lab..
Weigh every charge, Weigh every case, get your case length to the exact .001", buy the most expensive loading gear even if you just want a few boxes a year of a few different calibers. Old fashioned cup and core bullets do not work... Buy premium bullets for even low velocity cartridges...Buy about 25 different kinds of powder and 10 different brands and weights of bullets and every brand of primer to try to get the best results. And my all time favorite. 200 FPS more will make my rifle a better killer...

True, some rifles may not like a reccomended combination of load, powder, primer, and bullet, but if one works well enough to suit your needs, relax and enjoy it. It is not hard to improve on the performance of commercial ammunition in most rifles, and after you are at this level, then any changes may or may not improve things. 200 fps one way or the other was never the difference between eating wild meat and going to the butcher shop.
 
"Handling primers with your bare hands will render them useless from the oils on your skin"

Only if you've just pulled your hand out of a barrel of oil and haven't wiped it off yet.

"You need to deactivate a live primer in a case with 15 gallons of oil or WD40 before removing it with a die while wearing a bomb proof suit and having no less than 21 fire extinguishers on hand"

Several hundred live primers removed without the above precautions and I still have all of my 11 fingers. (I do recommend some sort of eye protection though.......just incase)
 
"Seating a bullet in a rifle cartridge to touch the lands will cause high pressure in a load that shows normal pressure with the bullet seated deeper."

I've never found this to be true. Lot's of people parrot this bit of wisdom (likely because it just sounds right) but I bet very few have checked for themselves.
 
I think this one is especially relevant because it's repeated here regularly by regulars and even contained in some (old?) reloading manuals:

"Crimping is what creates the tension that holds your bullet in place for straight walled cartridges such as 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP."
 
TwoTone said:
"Seating a bullet in a rifle cartridge to touch the lands will cause high pressure in a load that shows normal pressure with the bullet seated deeper."

I've never found this to be true. Lot's of people parrot this bit of wisdom (likely because it just sounds right) but I bet very few have checked for themselves.
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How can you check for yourself unless you have a strain gauge setup?

Generally, I'll work my loads up from the start with the bullet seated into the lands, so I feel safe - start low, and work up. But I have no idea what sort of charge weights I would work up to had I seated the bullet deeper; perhaps I would have gotten a grain or two more powder in.

The other thing to consider, especially with larger bores, is that seating depth greatly affects case capacity. If you're reloading for a 45-70, and you're able to seat the bullet .1" further out, you'll have a lot more space inside the case, and therefore, lower pressures at a given charge weight.

Bottom line: Start low, work up, and use a chrony to ensure that you stop when your velocities indicate that you're at max pressure.
 
TwoTone said:
"Seating a bullet in a rifle cartridge to touch the lands will cause high pressure in a load that shows normal pressure with the bullet seated deeper."

I've never found this to be true. Lot's of people parrot this bit of wisdom (likely because it just sounds right) but I bet very few have checked for themselves.
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Yep that one is true! IMHO
I've made a mistake & seen flatten primer from long loading a otherwise fine hunting load!
 
TwoTone said:
"Seating a bullet in a rifle cartridge to touch the lands will cause high pressure in a load that shows normal pressure with the bullet seated deeper."

I've never found this to be true. Lot's of people parrot this bit of wisdom (likely because it just sounds right) but I bet very few have checked for themselves.
Click to expand...

You hit a real controversial issue on that one.
However, I'm with you on it. I have many times loaded bullets to hit the lands, in several different rifles and calibres. I have never noticed a speck of difference in pressure, whether the bullet is squeezed into the lands, or clears it.
I have read where they have tested these things in labs, and there is a spike of pressure when the bullet starts, but the pressure is still low, as peak pressure doesn't come until the bullet is from one to three inches down the barrel. Thus, there is no increase in normal peak pressure.
That is what I have read, anyway it sounds reasonable and we have no way of checking it.
We can check pressure signs, however. Bolt sticking, or not is quite reliable indicator of excess pressure, but the most reliable is whether the primer pockets swell, which is a sure indicator of too much pressure.
I am always very careful about whether or not the primer pockets are expanding.
Again, no indication of more pressure, when the bullets are seated hard to the lands.
A way, way back in time, Jack O'Connor was considered the dean of all gun writers. Judging by the tremendous circulation of the magazine he was shooting and hunting editor of, there was no doubt, he was the chief.
He wrote an article on being careful, when seating your hunting bullets into the lands. I really perked up when I read the opening lines, because I was concerned about this.
However, his caution was that if you chambered the cartridge with the bullet tight into the lands, but didn't fire it, when you opened the bolt, the bullet clould stay stuck in the lands and besides a mess of spilled powder, one may have a heck of a time getting the bullet out, on a wilderness hunting trip.
I have not hesitated to seat them into the lands, ever after reading that article by Jack O'Connor.
 
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