Reloading over Nosler max capacity with RL 19

According to their book you are already over max, how far are you wanting to go and why ?
Sometimes RL 19 can give a sudden pressure rise so be careful, you are at the top already..
 
Nothing wrong with what your doing. Just be aware of what happens as temperatures change and pressures rises.

The only thing that you will see is throat erosion speeds up.
 
jaybe14 said:
Hello,
I'm load developing for my 7mm rem mag with 160 grain accubonds. I'm using RL 19 and have loaded some bullets at 63.5 grains (2 grains over max per Nosler) and have good accuracy and no pressure signs. Will I run into problems if I continue to add more powder and watch for pressure signs? Is there some limit I should be aware of?

http://www.nosler.com/nosler-load-data/7mm-remington-magnum/

Thank you.
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The limit you should be aware of is the limit your manual sets for that combination. You are already over that limit. You WILL run into problems if you continue to add more powder and watch for pressure signs. Maybe the pressure sign will be stiff bolt, maybe extractor marks on the head, maybe the action will blow up in your face. Your gamble.

Modern guns are amazing devices that can often take way more pressure than is considered "maximum" without blowing up. But your question implies that you are not experienced, and my advice to someone who would ask that question is to stick with tested loads that have been proven to be safe. The gains you are after (whatever they are) will seem pretty stupid to worry about if you are blind in one eye.
 
The reloader powders give very little warning of pressure issues, until you need a wooden mallet to open your bolt or worse. Some posters on other sites also have issue with it being temp sensitive. So a load that was close to max at 12c in the spring is way over at 30c.

You are saying that you are getting good results, so why push to the point of disaster. The rifle is a 7mag, at some point if you want more, you need a different case and caliber, such as a 7 wea or rum.
 
Maybe someone with QL can pipe in on this. Sadly, I find 7RM data to be really diluted. 160 gr bullet at 2900 - 3000 fps should be attainable with RL 19. Are you using a chrony at all? That will help give an idea of what might be going on with your load. More powder in a 7RM will hasten throat erosion for sure. It is a barrel eater. I got 750 rounds through mine and got about 40 thou of wear. Still shot okay but started to show signs of inconsistency.
 
What's your velocity? The Speer manual gives 64 grains as a maximum with RL19 and a 160, so your results are certainly within the realm of possibility.

I like to cross reference a load across several manuals and online sources. Usually I can eventually find a manual that agrees with my results.
 
Thanks for the advice on this. From what I have gathered is that based on the Allaint's Speer load, I should be okay, but after reading these posts I will continue not to increase the load. I have someone showing me the ropes, so I will plan to go out shooting next time with him.
Sorry I don't have the velocity yet as I don't own a chronograph. My mentor/buddy owns one so I will get the measurements when we head out again. Thank you on the advice regarding the quick pressure jump up with RL 19 as well as I will be aware of the temperature sensitively. I have a feeling I should test fire a round this hunting season as well.

I appreciate all the guidance, I will heed your advice and no load any hotter and send some bullets through the chronograph as well.
 
The chronograph is the most reliable indicator of pressure, all other things considered of course. You can't get velocity without pressure, and if the velocity is within spec for the particular combination of components you are using, your pressure will be OK too. Just don't try to get a couple extra hundred FPS because you haven't seen pressure signs... yet.
 
The 7mm Rem Mag with 160 grain bullets will generally top out at between 3000 and 3050 fps in a 24" barrel.
If you are there, be happy. I have seen a difference of 4 full grains of the same powder deliver this velocity in
2 different 7mm Mags, so variations are definitely out there
Be safe, Dave..
 
Jaybe There are a number of things that can affect the pressure generated in a cartridge. Some of these include differences in chamber, throat length (freebore), distance the bullet is seated off the rifling are a few. A loading manual is meant to be a guide. A load that is max in one rifle may not be max in another and it may be over max in a third rifle. As Eagleye has pointed out he has seen 7mm REm rifles that the powder charge varied as much as 4 grs to deliver the same velocity. As you work up from a starting load,some of the signs of increasing pressure you should see include : 1/observe the primers on a fired case. Before firing the primer has a rounded edge where the primer contacts the case head. As pressure increases this rounded edge starts to flatten out and the radius edge becomes a 90 deg edge. At this pressure you may also see some slight cratering around the firing pin mark on the primer. At this point you are slightly over Max pressure for that rifle and that bullet/powder combination. You should back off at least one gr of powder. If you continue to increase powder past these signs the next thing you will likely see are extractor marks on the case head and difficult extraction. No your rifle is not going to just blow up in your face but if you continue to increase powder charges the next thing that you will see is blown primers and expanded primer pockets. High pressure gas leaking from a blown primer will damage the bolt face of your rifle. This could also result in gas coming back in your face. Case head expansion will result in the primer falling out of the case when the case is extracted from the rifle. At this point you are likely 4 to 5 grs over Max and flirting with disaster.
Many novice re-loaders seem to think that absolute max velocity is what they need. What you should be looking for is the best accuracy you can get from your rifle. What I would suggest you do to find a load is start with a suggested start load from a manual. For 7mm rem & 160 gr using RL 19 start about 59 grs. Load 1 rd at 59 and mark 59 on the case with a sharpie. Load one of 60 grs ,one of 61 etc up to the suggested max,marking each case. Go to the range and shoot each test load (starting from the bottom) watching for signs of pressure. If you see any primer cratering, difficult bolt lift etc STOP shooting. You have reached over Max in your rifle with those components. Next go back and load up 3 rounds of the same powder charge starting 3 or 4 grs below max working up to max. Now go back and shoot those groups of 3 rounds to see which load produces the tightest group. From that powder charge you may want to try 1/2 gr up and down or adjust the seating depth slightly to obtain better accuracy. Remember if you seat the bullet out a little longer make sure it still functions through the magazine. A tighter group will give you a far better chance of hitting you target than a few extra fps bullet speed will. Hope that helps
 
rokoro said:
What you should be looking for is the best accuracy you can get from your rifle.
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I agree and disagree with this.

Why I agree: Having confidence in the load you are shooting is key to placing a good shot where it needs to go. For big game out to say 800 yards moa will deliver a kill shot. If it is a varmint gun that won't do.

Why I disagree: If it is a hunting gun you need speed along with accuracy. I will use a 30-06 as an example as I have use it most. You should see 2800-2900fps with a good load in the 30-06 with 165gr. You might find a more accurate load at say 2400fps but at that point you might as well shoot a 30-30 and not a 30-06. For a hunting rifle you need to find the balance of both accuracy and the speed that given cartridge is capable of.
 
hometownhero said:
Why I disagree: If it is a hunting gun you need speed along with accuracy. I will use a 30-06 as an example as I have use it most. You should see 2800-2900fps with a good load in the 30-06 with 165gr. You might find a more accurate load at say 2400fps but at that point you might as well shoot a 30-30 and not a 30-06. For a hunting rifle you need to find the balance of both accuracy and the speed that given cartridge is capable of.
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This^^^^

Why bother owning a 7mmRM if your going to load it down for "accuracy" to 7mm08 speeds? Or load your 300win mag to shoot no faster than 30-06. Or your 30-06 to 308?

Unless you load simply because someone gave you the equipment and so making your own Ammo is cheaper, you should be loading for speed and accuracy specific to YOUR PARTICULAR RIFLE. Not what some test rig in a lab that has more lawyers than lab techs.
 
Thanks for the posts and the guidance. Just an update, my reloading mentor was able to come out shooting with me this time and I had a second pair of eyes. He basically followed me through the process that rokoro laid out in his post (thanks again for the advice).
I shot the 62 grain through 63.5 grain loads. Although the chronograph had a few issues, we were able to get a reading on the 62.5 grain loads - 2894 FPS. This is well under the FPS stated on the load recorded on the Nosler website, and more in line with the data given by Alliant. This seems to tie in with what longwalker posted.
The grouping in the I got with the 63.5 grain load was about 2/3 of an inch, and no pressure signs yet (confirmed again by my mentor). Given that I would like to see if I can get up a little closer to the 3000 FPS range with this rifle, I was considering loading up to 64 and 64.5 grains and testing this load. Going on that the FPS was much lower than the Nosler website, and watching for pressure signs.
Just looking to confirm some info from you more experienced reloader (my mentor advised as he not familiar with RL19 and advised me to seek a second opinion) - if I run these hotter loads and keep an eye on the pressure signs (keeping in mind the quick pressure jump), and the chronograph shows under 3000 FPS, I should be okay? I know this is basically my original question, but now I have an idea what the FPS are and I agree with hometown and shooter about the accuracy/velocity balance. Just trying to understand that the lower FPS should be a reflection of lower pressure.
 
Well, ballpark, you will need about 2 more grains of powder above 62.5 gr to get to 3000 fps. One of the major variations from rifle to rifle is bore diameter, which can have a big effect on the pressure velocity relationship. What that means is that you cannot "expect" to get 3000 fps out of your rifle, as you may already be close to, or at, at max load.
FWIW - Re22 appears to be able to wring out an extra 60 fps compared to RE19 at max load, looking at the Lee manual. Also, Lee lists 62 gr of RE19 @ 3020 fps max load.
 
The 7mm Mag is absolutely one of the worst chamberings for wide variations, in my experience.

I had a Ruger 77R in 7mm mag that seemed to soak up unusual amounts of powder, and still did
not reach the velocities I had hoped for. A Chamber cast revealed why. SAAMI max dimensions and
a long throat. Groove diameter was also a bit generous at .2846"

At 68.5 grains of Norma MRP behind the 160 Partition, I was registering 2955 fps.....acceptable, but
not much above what can be reached with the 280 Remington. No excess pressure signs evident.

I had a Howa 1500 in 7mm Mag, that reached 3050 with 64 grains of Norma MRP. Much tighter
dimensions all around. Pressure indications were normal, but you can imagine the results had
I tried to shoot 68.5 grains of MRP in this rifle with that 160P.

My present M700, an early BDL with very low round count, is at 3060, using 66.5 grains of MRP
Since it is shooting the 160 Partition sub-moa, I will continue to use this load in this rifle.
There is no measurable belt expansion with this load in this rifle, bolt lift is very easy, and the WLRM
primers are not excessively flat.

I have owned several other 7mm Mag rifles, and have seen a lot of differences. OP, your load is
probably safe in YOUR rifle, but may not be so in another rifle.

Regards, Dave.
 
jaybe14 said:
Just looking to confirm some info from you more experienced reloader (my mentor advised as he not familiar with RL19 and advised me to seek a second opinion) - if I run these hotter loads and keep an eye on the pressure signs (keeping in mind the quick pressure jump), and the chronograph shows under 3000 FPS, I should be okay? I know this is basically my original question, but now I have an idea what the FPS are and I agree with hometown and shooter about the accuracy/velocity balance. Just trying to understand that the lower FPS should be a reflection of lower pressure.
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R19 is too fast of a powder. You may not be able to get to 3000fps with a 160 with it before hitting pressure.

FPS is not always a sign of LOWER pressure, but it is a sign of pressure. When you get close to the upper limits, fps can start to drop with increased powder charges........

Try R22 to get there. Although, my 7wsm didn't quite get to 3000 with a 162. R19 definitely wouldn't have done it in that rifle.
 
I'm loading the same bullet in two separate rifles ,a Sako Finnbear and a Win 70 classic .One likes RE#22 and the other IMR 4350 so you need to spend some time diddling at the bench .Harold
 
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