reloading shotshells with promo

[jacky]

OK so I decided to give promo powder a try using my MEC 600.
According to the Alliant's Promo reloading data web page....

"Select a Bushing two sizes smaller than the one recommended for the same number of grains of Red Dot"

So I wanted around 16.5-17 grains in my 11/8oz load. Now using bushing number 29 and Red Dot powder it should deliver a charge of 17.1 grains. So I put in bushing 27 ( using the recommendation above) threw a few charges and they all weighed well under 16 grains ?? I put in bushing 29 ( which should give accord to Red Dot data, 18.5 grains) threw a few charges and they all weighted around 16.5 grains ?? Anyone know what is going on here.

Actually I am getting the same charge weight in grains using bushing 29 and Promo or 700X ?? The recommendation of using a bushing two sizes smaller seems way off. Anyone else use this powder ??

Jacky

 

[jukkabev]

Anyone else use this powder ??
Jacky

Jacky,

I'm on my 3rd 8lb jug of Promo. Promo should be loaded with the same recipes that use Red Dot, only you have to be sure to weigh the charges because it's supposed to be more dense than Red Dot. The recomendation for smaller charge size bushings is due to its density, but if you are getting 16.5 gr out of a #29 bushing, then there is no reason to switch the bushing. It should also be noted that you should check your drop weights every time you get a new jug of promo as the batches can vary in density. Personally, I've not experience more than 0.2gr difference between jugs which isn't enough of a variance to worry about. Just make sure you have a decent scale and you'll be fine.

You must be a trap shooter, cuz obody else would subject themselves to the recoil of 1 1/8 ounce loads! I've been loading up 7/8 ounce shells for skeet and they're breaking the targets just as well as any 1 1/8 ounce load ever did!

Cheers and happy loading!

-- Steve

 

[Claybuster]

MEC bushings are like snowflakes. No two are alike.

With very few exceptions MEC bushings throw light charges compared to what the chart says (so do their charge bars). MEC likely believes that somewhere there is someone who would load a shell based on what the chart says instead of using a proper scale weighing they charge. They probably have a point.

Developing a load with MEC bushings is a trial and error process until you get the right powder charge. This explains why I have a growing collection of MEC bushings.

 

[jacky]

Jacky,

You must be a trap shooter, cuz obody else would subject themselves to the recoil of 1 1/8 ounce loads! I've been loading up 7/8 ounce shells for skeet and they're breaking the targets just as well as any 1 1/8 ounce load ever did!

Cheers and happy loading!

-- Steve

Yes I am a trap shooter. I just bought 5000 WT12 wads which are only good for 11/8 oz loads. In hindsight I should have bought some AA12SL's for 1 oz loads..... but I don't feel a ton of recoil with my Browning.

Jacky

 

[beretta boy]

Jacky :

Like CB said: Lots of variation amongst bushings ( MEC, as well as others)

Check with a good scale, always. Seemingly, most MEC's "settle down" after about the 5th reload to give you a fair representative reading of what the bushing actually throws. A powder baffle is also a good idea, to prevent large differences between when the powder bottle is full and when it is near empty.

With the MEC bushings, I basically ignored what was "supposed to be" and scaled to find out "what was". If the charge was too light, I used 240 then 400 wet/dry paper around a mandrel with a Foredom tool ( something like a Dremel" to enlarge and polish the bushing hole until it threw the correct charge. But again, the first powder charge thrown was rarely correct, check after the 5th and maybe again at 7 & 10 shells loaded.

Been using Promo since it came out, and am quite happy with it.

Regards... BB

 

[jukkabev]

Developing a load with MEC bushings is a trial and error process until you get the right powder charge. This explains why I have a growing collection of MEC bushings.

And this is why I have a universal charge bar on both my Versamec 700 and 9000G.

I guess I should sell my charge bars and the few bushings that I have.

 

[jacky]

I also have a universal charge bar. Aer they hard to set up ??
Oh and I have been weighing my charges extensively as I am just starting with this powder. The charges seem to be comming out anywhere from 16.5 to 17.0 grains which is OK. On Wednesday I will try these loads out and see how they kick and break targets

Jacky

 

[Claybuster]

I've thought about an adjustable bar several times but my total cost of bushings and bars would probably be about the same over the years as an adjustable give or take a dollar or two. Some of the bushings came as part of buying the loaders and others were picked up for peanuts at shows, etc.

I don't do enough load changing or experimentation to justify an adjustable bar. My approach to reloading is to find a load that works and stick with it. The same bushing has sat in my 12 gauge 9000 for years and once I get the 28 gauge sorted out to my satisfaction I doubt I'll change it again.

As for shot drops, I don't mind if they are a little light. The MEC shot bars seem to be set up to drop soft #9 shot at the right weight. The MECs drop lighter shot loads if the pellets are larger and/or harder.

 

[beretta boy]

Jacky:

You can load 1 oz. Promo loads ( 17.5 gr. ) with the WT12 (Orange) wads, in AA hulls. You may have to back your wad pressure off a little ( it's relatively non-critical ... as long as the wad is firmly seated against the powder) and re-adjust for the best crimp. This is one of the loads on Alliants web-site for
Red-Dot. Gives 1200 f.p.s. @ 10,600 psi. I've used the same load & it works fine.

 

[jukkabev]

I don't do enough load changing or experimentation to justify an adjustable bar. My approach to reloading is to find a load that works and stick with it.

Yeah, I was playing around with 1oz, 7/8oz and 3/4oz loads for a bit and I didnt feel like buying additional charge bars + bushings, so I bit the bullet and bought the adjustable bar. I now have it dialed in for 17gr of promo and 7/8 of extra hard #9 and I think I'm going to leave it there for a long time.

I also picked up the new high capacity (holds 200) primer feed tray for the 9000 and I'm now cranking out flats of shells even faster than before.

 

[jacky]

Jacky:

You can load 1 oz. Promo loads ( 17.5 gr. ) with the WT12 (Orange) wads, in AA hulls. You may have to back your wad pressure off a little ( it's relatively non-critical ... as long as the wad is firmly seated against the powder) and re-adjust for the best crimp. This is one of the loads on Alliants web-site for
Red-Dot. Gives 1200 f.p.s. @ 10,600 psi. I've used the same load & it works fine.

I may give this a try although do I need 17.5 grn or can I go about 16-16.5 ??

Jacky

 

[jukkabev]

I may give this a try although do I need 17.5 grn or can I go about 16-16.5 ??

Jacky

The recipe for that 1oz load from alliantpowder.com calls for a win209 primer + 17.5gr of red dot/promo with a WT12 (orange) in a winchester AA hull and should deliver a 1200 fps load.

There's a 1oz recipe listed which uses the pink 1oz wad that uses 16.5gr of red dot/promo and says it will deliver 1150 fps, which is probably a good estimation on what you'll see with the WT12 wad. Same goes for the gray 7/8 wad in that same 1ounce load with 16.5 gr of red dot/promo.

Load up a box and try them out. You might like it or you might find them to be too slow for your liking. The reduced velocity will also result in less recoil.

 

[beretta boy]

A 1 oz. load is already mild.

Stick with the recipe.