Reloading the .308 Win – Questions from a reloading newb.

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Reloading the .308 Win – Questions from a reloading newb.

I am brand new to reloading; just getting my bench set up. I want to start my reloading career developing a couple of .308 loads; one for target shooting and one for hunting. I have a copy of the Lyman manual, the 48th edition and all (almost) of the equipment needed.

The starting points I selected are: (after a fair amount of research)

For a light hunting load:

Primer: Remington 9 ½ Large Rifle
Bullet: 150gr Hornady Spire Point #3031
Powder: H-380 – 48 grains


For a target load:

Primer: Remington 9 ½ Large Rifle
Bullet: 168gr Sierra HPBT Match King
Powder: N550 – 44.5 grains

Both of these loads are from the Lyman manual. Here is where it gets problematic. I wander in to my local gun shop with my list of goodies and ask them to please order what I need. Strikeout!

They can’t get Remington primers, only CCI or Winchester.

The Remington primer is the one recommended in my manual. How much with my load be affected by going with a CCI or Winchester primer? Given those 2 options which one is my best bet?

Also, they can’t get H-380 or N550!

Arrrg! It seems that I have to work with what products I can get, not what recommended in the manual as the most likely accurate load. They can get IMR 4895, Varget, IMR 4320 and a bunch of others I am sure but……..how do I know where to start!!!

Anyone suggest a 150gr hunting load and any target load (168,175,190 I don’t really care) I might start with using stuff I should be able to readily get?
 
Ok, first thing is that Vihtavuori powders are not the easiest to get (even on this side of the border). You should develop your loads using components that are readily available to you. Don't use something that is difficult to find, it only leads to a lot of wasted time and frustration searching for it. N550 is really too slow for those bullets. Its my favorite powder for 190-210 grainers though.

Winchester is going to be the easiest primer to find I imagine. You can use either... not a big deal at this point.

For bullets, the 168 is great for up to 800 yards. I prefer the Nosler to the Sierra. I've found it to be more consistent. Any 168 match bullet is a good place to start for a beginner.

You should really concentrate on developing one load at a time until you're more experienced. If you insist on doing two, I would choose a hunting bullet closer to the 168 weight, such as a 165 grainer. You should be able to tune them so that your zero is pretty much the same for both. Then you don't have to re-zero your scope to switch between them. That may even work with the same charge weight for both. In any case, there will be less of a danger if you get things mixed up.

Now, make your life easier and settle on one powder. IMR4895 is an excellent powder for 308 Win. And, it will work very well with both those bullets. H4895 is also good, and more temperature stable. Start the one of the 4895s.
 
CCI BR2 or CCI 250 Mag primers
Varget works well in target loads for the .308 and should work well for the hunting loads as well

Always start with Min load and work up to Max listed load.

168 GR. SIE HPBT ... Hodgdon Varget ... .308" ... 2.800" ... Min Load 42.0 ... 2520 ... 41,200 CUP ... Max Load 46.0C ... 2731 ... 50,600 CUP
 
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Hunter's in Surrey should be able to get some VV for you. Maybe try 150 instead of 550. Varget or Re15 if you can't find VV. For primers, as Cyanide said, I'd grab cci br2's.
 
The Remington, Winchester Standard and CCI are all quite similar. I once had to make 40,000 rounds of sniper ammo and the federal match primers were unavailable. The case maker used Winchester standard instead. We had to reduce the powder charge .2 grains, but the accuracy and standard deviation was about the same.

My suggestion would be to buy a case (5,000 primers) of CCI BR2 (match primers), Winchester Standard or CCI (in that order of preferance.)

The advice about buying similar weight bullets is excellent. I suggest a pointed boattail 180 soft point and the Sierra 175 Match or the Hornady 178 HP Match.

If you ever shoot in the wind or at longer range, the 175 and 178 handle the wind better than the Sierra 168.

As for powders, if you can get Vhit, buy the N150 or the N140. They are single base powders and much less temperature senstive than the double base 5 series. My suggstion of powders would be N150, H4895 or Varget, in that order. Varget is an excellent powder but it sometimes takes a little fiddling to get it to work. N150, on the other hand, will fill your case and give low SDs.

For starters, load your bullets about 20 thou off the rifling.
 
Thanks for all the excellent answers fellas.

I should have pointed out that I have 2 rifles chambered in .308. One is a 700 SPS, purely a bench shooting rig and the other is a BAR, it's my deer gun and the one I have my heart set on developing a 150gr load for.

I maybe should forget about the target load for now and develop a hunting load for my BAR.

Lets talk about a load based around a hornady 150gr spire point. (#3031)

Thanks again.

BB
 
That BAR will like the 165 grain bullets better than the 150s and will likely feed them better if you have any problems with the 150s. Nothing wrong with good 150 grn bullets, just a little heads up from a problem with the BAR I used to own. Also, don't expect moa or less groups from the BAR. Yes, there is the odd one that will perform extremely well but they are the exception, not the rule.

Seat the bullets out as far as the magazine will allow or you are .005 or so off the lands, also full length resize every time you reload. It makes for trouble free feeding and may help with accuracy.
 
bearhunter said:
That BAR will like the 165 grain bullets better than the 150s and will likely feed them better if you have any problems with the 150s. Nothing wrong with good 150 grn bullets, just a little heads up from a problem with the BAR I used to own. Also, don't expect moa or less groups from the BAR. Yes, there is the odd one that will perform extremely well but they are the exception, not the rule.

Seat the bullets out as far as the magazine will allow or you are .005 or so off the lands, also full length resize every time you reload. It makes for trouble free feeding and may help with accuracy.
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Thanks for the tips.

This BAR is currently about 1.5 MOA with cheap federal ammo and I am very satisfied with that. I use it purely for hunting inside 300 yds. I will be interesting to see how accurate I can get it when I finally start hand loading.
 
if you are looking at target loads for competition, don't forget the 155 grain sierra palma bullet. I believe that that is the max weight in some competitions, but I have been wrong before.
 
p14shooter said:
if you are looking at target loads for competition, don't forget the 155 grain sierra palma bullet. I believe that that is the max weight in some competitions, but I have been wrong before.
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You beat me to it. My understanding is that for F class, 155 is max. Which brings me to my question- will the 155 do well out to 1000?
 
155 bullets are used for International Palma shooting out to 1000 yards. At Bisley issued RG ammo is 155 gr. and shot out to 1000 yards. There is even a match rifle agg out to 1200 yards with issued RG 155 gr bullets in the UK.
155 gr bullets for F Class is for the F(F) class (may be called F Restricted in your area) If you want to shoot heavier than 155 gr you are bumped up into the F Open class.
 
p14shooter said:
if you are looking at target loads for competition, don't forget the 155 grain sierra palma bullet. I believe that that is the max weight in some competitions, but I have been wrong before.
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I am just looking for target loads for personal target shooting. I am not interested in competition shooting.
 
"...load be affected by going with a CCI or Winchester primer?..." Not at all. However, if you work up a load with one primer then change it, you'll have to work up the load again. That goes for any one component too. And you'll have to work up a load for each rifle.
"...my heart set on..." Use the 150's with IMR4064, IMR4895 or Varget.
A 165 grain hunting bullet will be more versatile. You'll have one hunting load for all large game.
"...don't expect moa or less groups..." Yep. It's a hunting rifle and a semi-auto at that. Full length resizing is required every time with any semi-auto too. Either a Small Base or regular FL sizer die.
 
Here is a table of a test that was done comparing various primers in a 30-06 load,

P1040489.jpg
 
Interesting report. The variation from lot to lot was as significant as the variation from brand to brand.

I note two of the tests were with magnum primers. Increased the pressure/velocity but ES/SD was nominal.

I note the RWS primer gave the lowest pressure SD but had a high velocity ES. Strange.

This is why I like to buy primers several cases at a time. Reduces primer changes.
 
For your deer hunter BAR, I second the 165gr option. I find the 150 causes a lot of meat loss. I hunt in short range eastern settings. I changed over to using 180s so that one laod will do both deer and moose.

For target shooting, you want grouping ability and wind bucking. A well made rifle and good shooter should not accept any load that won't stay under 1 minute. I suggest you try a box of 155's from Sierra and Lapua and something heavier, like the Sierra 175 (not the 168). The rifle should have a preference. Load the match bullets 20 thou off the lands for the initial testing. Once you have a bullet and load, try 10 thou more and less. The rifle may have a preference.

The 155 handles wind very well and tends to work well in most rifles.
 
I am not very impressed with the shop! I might understand the 550 powder being difficult to get but all the other components should be easy. Mind you, it is late in the hunting season.

Now, manuals recommend a lot of things but remember that the loads listed in manuals are the ones that were worked in THAT rifle they used to develop the load. Each rifle has it's own personality and characteristics so that 'the most accurate load' load you work up from the manual might not shoot at all in your rifle. Have had that happen to me lots. Better to try a few powders instead of getting fixated on just one.

As for what's available... VARGET and IMR 4895 are good powders for 308, give them a try. The nice thing about a 308 is that is not fussy what you feed it. As for primers, you could work up loads simultaneously with each to see which is better. That's a lot work but should be worth it in the end.

Don't fret over what the manual 'recommends'.
 
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Ltbull01 said:
I am not very impressed with the shop! I might understand the 550 powder being difficult to get but all the other components should be easy. Mind you, it is late in the hunting season.

Now, manuals recommend a lot of things but remember that the loads listed in manuals are the ones that were worked in THAT rifle they used to develop the load. Each rifle has it's own personality and characteristics so that 'the most accurate load' load you work up from the manual might not shoot at all in your rifle. Have had that happen to me lots. Better to try a few powders instead of getting fixated on just one.

As for what's available... VARGET and IMR 4895 are good powders for 308, give them a try. The nice thing about a 308 is that is not fussy what you feed it. As for primers, you could work up loads simultaneously with each to see which is better. That's a lot work but should be worth it in the end.

Don't fret over what the manual 'recommends'.
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This post was very helpful. Thanks.
 
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