Reloading the 45/70

natesfitness

natesfitness

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I have almost officially started my journey into the world of reloading for my Marlin 1895. I have the Lymans reloading manual which has been great and I've learned a ton. I've been slowing putting together my components and have a few questions. I've seen a lot of powder choices for this round, a lot of guys are using Reloader 7 but it seems only with jacketed bullets and H322 seems to be the powder of choice for the heavy cast bullets. Are these powders a good choice?

I was hoping to stick to the 405grain bullet for now and was looking at picking up a bunch of the Remington 405 soft point but am having trouble finding them. Does anyone know a source where I can buy these?
 
I haven't used either of the two powders you mention.
Several of us on these threads have found either IMR 4198, or 4895 of either brand, to be excellent, plus, for loading the 45-70 Marlins in ranges from light hunting loads, to "ouch," loads. For fairly high loads, any of the medium burners seem to work real well, but some may not have the accuracy at vastly different loadings, as does 4198 and 4895.
I don't suppose many of you have Norma 203, but it worked good at quite heavy loads, but I didn't spend too much time experimenting with it.
For heavy loads, some very experienced reloaders on here state that IMR 3031 is great.

Edited, regarding bullets. If you are going to do much shooting, by all means use cast bullets. Lots of sources in the west for high quality lubed and sized bullets at a fraction of the cost of factory jacketed. Likely good bullets not too far from you, also. Good weights are from 405 to 420, which are virtually interchangeable in powder charges.
 
H322 and Reloader 7 are great powders for the 45/70, excellent accuracy and velocity. H322 will work for 300gr to 550gr bullets in your Marlin, lots of flexabity. My old hunting load was a 350gr Hornady over 50gr of Reloader 7 for about 2000fps out of a 1895G. I also found alliant 2400 works well for accurate, light practice, plinking loads. Have fun.

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570cast.htm
 
i use 50grs imr -3031 with hornady 350 gr bullets, very good loads, and 11-12 grs unique with 325 gr gas check cast loads to about 1150-1200 fps , works very good to 100 yds or so nice light load, works nice in my guide gun ,wade
 
Funny, but all of the reading that I have done, and my experience, uses Reloader 7 for cast bullets. I have had good results with it.
Your first decision is on what kind of loads you want to shoot. If you really want 'ouch' loads, I cannot help. I have found that a 405 grain cast at 1600 fps is more than enough to catch my attention, and is more than enough for deer and the like.
Other powders, such as 2400, are also good in the range from 1200 fps to 1500 fps.
 
I'd forget the jacketted bullets - get a mold the weight and design you want and use 20:1 lead and tin if you're looking for expansion, air cooled wheelweights + 2%tin for less expansion, ww + 2% tin water dropped for solids. There's very little a jacketted bullet can do for you in 45 - 70 that can't be equalled with a gas checked cast one.
Grouch
 
I have a box of 405gr gas checked cast bullets coming in from bullet barn and a pound of Reloader 7 and IMR 4198. I'm gonna try em both and see which one I prefer. I'm already leaning towards the 4198 simply because it's about 8 bucks a pound cheaper. I'd like to push these around the 1800-1900fps mark. Should I expect any leading?
 
natesfitness said:
I have a box of 405gr gas checked cast bullets coming in from bullet barn and a pound of Reloader 7 and IMR 4198. I'm gonna try em both and see which one I prefer. I'm already leaning towards the 4198 simply because it's about 8 bucks a pound cheaper. I'd like to push these around the 1800-1900fps mark. Should I expect any leading?
Click to expand...


Just got mine delivered thinking the same 4198...GC CAST 405 FROM Bullet Barn. For a Marlin rifle.
 
I'm not ragging on Bullet Barn here but I got a deal frm a friend for about 200 plain base 350gr hard cast bullets. They only have one lube groove and are silvery in colour. I think they are very hard.

I shot a lot of them when I started reloading for my 1895. I have a microgroove barrel and I don't remember the loads, but I think I was only going about 1500. I had terrible leading like I had never seen before.

I have been buying bullets from Ben Hunchak since and I'm having a way better time. I think there are two reasons why it was happening. Ben uses a higher quality or a higher temperature bullet lube and I get the bullets cast to .460" now. I shoot a lot and I can put 100 down the barrel with the same amount of barrel fouling I got with 10 rounds before. You can imagine when I went out the first time and shot about 50... I pretty much turned it into a .44 cal smoothbore.

It almost completely discouraged me from shooting cast. I'm glad I didn't quit as I have developed a few good loads now that I am very happy with. I use 340 plain base HP's cast soft and 420 and 480gr gas-checked wide flat points cast hard. I use H4198 for the big ones and Unique for the smaller ones, I'll try trail boss soon as well but I have been happy with Unique and you can make a lot of ammo 12 gr at a time. I have another 200 300gr gas checked waiting for me to pick up on my way through and I am excited to try them.

have fun...
 
Not to long a go I bought a marlin 45/70XLR . A good shooter but just for laughs try 300gr sierra bullet with H335 67gr powder . No signs of excess pressure but great balls of fire an freeken loud. The other guys at the range had a good laugh an I got a 2 1/2 inch group at a 100 yards. This rifle has my attention.
 
Quickload says that is at 44200 psi chamber pressure with a muzzle velocity of 2392fps and 3810 ft-lbs. Also says that in a 24 inch barrel, 92.1% of the propellant was burnt.

Sounds like fun. That's a little hotter than I load at this point but anything near the upper end of a 45-70 is devastating.
 
I've had good results with H4198 and 4895 coupled with Hornady 350grain bullets. I load them up to near max...they do catch my attention. As did some 405 grain cast bullets and stiff charges of RL7. If you want some really good data and loads varying from mild to monstrous, you should try to get hold of a copy of Handloader from August of 2007...I've tried various loads from that issue.
 
I've used the 350gr Hornady fn and rn with good results on game. The fn being better for deer, black bear as the rn is tougher and tend to punch .458 holes thru and thru, still not a bad thing. Either is good medicine for moose.

The 300gr remington, hornady, sierra, are best for deer if not pushed over 2000fps or so, then you're looking into over expansion and blowing the crap out them. I found the 300gr Remingoton and Hornady to be very accurate. Although I've never used them on deer most users state these put deer down the fastest of all .458 bullets. Open up just right for small big game.

350gr Speer, Hornady, swift and similar are a very good all around bullet weight and trajectory. Any of these at 1700fpr to 2100fps are deadly on elk, moose, big bear sized game etc.

400gr Speer, Remington,Barnes 0riginal, are great too if not pushed too fast, they are thumpers.

400gr Punch bullet, $2.50 a bullet, good for africa and elephant skulls.

Hardcast bullet with wide meplates are great as they penetrate like no tommorow yet will still put deer down as the front of the bullet really smacks them. I've used them on a bear and it dropped it. For best results try and take out some bone.

The premium bullets are the Nosler Partition (discontinued), if you can find these grab them, very tough bullet that out penetrates the 400gr Speer, Remington and barnes orginal due to its tough constucion. Great for big game.

The 300gr Barns tsx fn is good but due to its length can't be pushed as fast as the regular 300gr bullets. You'd have to check but I think 1900-2000fps is its limit due to pressure, very tough, close second to the Nosler. Also great for big critters.

Speer 300gr uni-cor, great bullet, won't come apart and retains its weight, much cheaper than the Nosler/Barnes. Buddy put one of these thru a mooses shoulders and still got 90%+ weight rentetion, .70 .8 expansion.

North Fork 350gr fn, good bullet, can't come apart at lever action speeds.

There are plenty of others for .458, check these out for more details. 7 pages of .458 bullets with reviews. http://www.midwayusa.com/BROWSE/Bro...0&categoryString=9315***652***19785***9016***


Have fun and straight shooting. Having so many bullets, and loads to choose from is what really makes big bores fun to shoot.


Cheers

Seabass
 
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