Rem 700 bolt timing issue

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Jeff_C

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https://youtu.be/o626TfR0W00

Please watch the above video. As I slide my bolt forward my lugs roll over and start to cam without any pressure on the bolt. Other Rem 700's I have handled do not do this, so I believe something must be wrong. It makes cycling the bolt slightly more difficult because if the handle is not lifted properly the lug will "lock" the bolt in.

I have no extraction or accuracy issues, the cycling thing is annoying though.

1. Does anyone know what could cause this?
2. Does anyone have a possible solution? Move bolt handle forward? Maybe trigger adjustments?
3. Would a PTG bolt fix this?

Thanks for your help
 
It appears the cocking piece is not engaging the notch in the bolt correctly. That should be diagnosed by a hands on inspection.
 
Jeff_C said:
Would adjusting anything on the trigger or sear help this?
Click to expand...

Not that I am aware of.

If it is the cocking piece/bolt notch alignment ( I am guessing) then adjusting (grinding) the notch to hold the cocking piece indexed correctly is what is needed.

You state "It makes cycling the bolt slightly more difficult because if the handle is not lifted properly the lug will "lock" the bolt in."

I don't know what properly lifting the bolt comprises of compared to not lifting properly...? but I think the notch in the bolt is the key here... not something I suggest you try and fix, but an easy fix for a smith who inspects it and confirms my guess.
 
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smokeeter said:
here's a fix for the timing issues, this is for a custom muzzleloader but the fix is the same.

1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulmcEpxknWw

2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K321Q8VtcPI
Click to expand...

1 In this video I will show you how I fix Remington Extraction problems.

2 In this video I will show you how I fix Remington Extraction problems

I didn't waste any time watching these after reading the text when the video started...

Of course there is a fix for timing issues - but not all owners are capable of diagnosing the problem let alone fixing it.
 
Guntech,

Thank you for your response. From what I understand you think the cocking Notch may needed to be grinded deeper? So that the cocking piece hits the sear sooner thus stopping the forward motion of the bolt?

As for my poor description of the lifting properly part... this is what I am trying to say.

Let's say I lift my bolt and let it lie naturally. If I take my rifle and tilt it backwards the bolt will not slide back because the lug has slightly rolled over and is preventing the bolt from sliding backwards.

If I do the same thing on other 700's when I tilt the gun the bolt slides backwards because the lug is fully in the raceway. It only begins to cam when pressure is applied to the handle. Mine begins to cam without any pressure added. The lugs partially engage on their own. That's all I was trying to describe.

Are there any pictures I could take or measurements that could help you get a better idea?

Thanks for your input.
 
I think the notch needs to be cut very slightly deeper and off to the side that would correct the indexing... so when the bolt is fully lifted the cocking piece is firmly in the notch and in line for smooth bolt movement. This is my guess without inspection.
 
A gunsmith on another forum suggested the cocking piece might be bad and replacing it could fix this issue. Was just wondering your thoughts on that Dennis.
 
A new cocking piece may correct it as it may have a different shape and index differently... this is why it needs to be looked at it, by someone who understands how it works and determine what is needed.

You should be able to inspect this now and see just what is happening...
 
So I have a question for you since I don't know the answer and can't seem to find it. On a rem 700, what is supposed to stop the forward motion of the bolt? Is it the bolt handle hitting the cam on the receiver? Or is the forward motion supposed to be stopped by the cocking piece indexing the sear?

That is to say if you tilt the gun forward and the bolt slides freely which of those two stops it?

I have inspected this action at length and all I see is as the bolt slides forward the lugs drop out of the raceway before the bolts forward motion is stopped. On other actions the bolts forward motion is stopped while the lugs are still in the raceway. That is the only thing that is apparent to me, but I just can't tell why that forward motion is stopping whether it be the handle or the sear. My bolt handle is not even close the the cam on the receiver when the lugs drop out of the raceway. On mine it is sxtuslly the sear/cocking piece that stops the forward motion.

Not really sure what is supposed to happen with that...
 
So it is not necessary for the handle to make contact with the receiver on the forward movement of the bolt? The cocking piece engaging the sear should stop the forward motion then and when pressure is applied to the handle it will #### slightly.
 
The bolt handle should contact the receiver on the bottom when it stops downward movement and at the initial extraction cam on opening... and it should not touch the stock anywhere.
 
I believe, when the bolt is closed, the first thing to contact should be the extraction cam at the root of the handle but that may simply reflect my preference and have little to do with Remington's intent.
I do know that many, if not all, recent 700's contact at the sear first. Many recent 700's also have little or no primary extraction. I'm fairly familiar with the Remington 700 but can't diagnose your problem over the internet. I think Dennis may well be correct but I would just be guessing.
 
Well I contacted Timney. I'll see what they say or if they have any advice for me. Gravel Agency said this is normal, but that doesn't seem right to me. If Timney returns nothing I'll have to bring it in to another local gunsmith and talk about some of the things discussed here. I do appreciate all of your help and I realize it's something that can not be easily diagnosed over the internet unfortunately. This has changed my focus though to look more at the sear and cocking piece which I hope is leading me closer to the solution.
 
Jeff_C said:
Well I contacted Timney. I'll see what they say or if they have any advice for me. Gravel Agency said this is normal, but that doesn't seem right to me. If Timney returns nothing I'll have to bring it in to another local gunsmith and talk about some of the things discussed here. I do appreciate all of your help and I realize it's something that can not be easily diagnosed over the internet unfortunately. This has changed my focus though to look more at the sear and cocking piece which I hope is leading me closer to the solution.
Click to expand...

Gravel Agency said this is normal, but that doesn't seem right to me.

What is this? What do they say is normal? Is it from post 1 "if the handle is not lifted properly the lug will "lock" the bolt in"?
 
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Leeper said:
I believe, when the bolt is closed, the first thing to contact should be the extraction cam at the root of the handle but that may simply reflect my preference and have little to do with Remington's intent.
I do know that many, if not all, recent 700's contact at the sear first. Many recent 700's also have little or no primary extraction. I'm fairly familiar with the Remington 700 but can't diagnose your problem over the internet. I think Dennis may well be correct but I would just be guessing.
Click to expand...

I am guessing a bit too Bill.

I think Remington designed the cocking piece to engage first making it a very slight #### on closing... only saying this because I have never seen a factory one do otherwise.

I agree that ideally the first thing to contact should be the extraction cam at the root of the handle (for the strongest primary extraction) but possibly that involves too much precision for a mass produced (and basically cheap) product.

I have on occasion reworked a cocking piece and the cocking piece notch in the bolt so there is absolute minimal '#### on closing' and a very smooth transition to a closed bolt. This however does not always work if you switch trigger group later... it may require more adjusting.
 
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guntech said:
On forward movement a 700 cocking piece engages the sear and then cocks slightly on closing...
Click to expand...

I agree that this engagement can be reduced for easier/smoother operation but IMHO Remington incorporated it into to the design on purpose, not just for cost savings but as a safety feature. I also agree with your later statement that this can be "fixed" and in a "safe" manner.

OP, it sounds like you have a good idea of what's happening but are slightly out of your depth here. Contact Dennis or Bill Leeper by PM and make arrangements for them to see the action hands on.

I know hunting season is already upon you in your area but if it's like most of BC it may not be a good idea to be out and about in the woods. Likely you can arrange for a very fast turnaround time at a reasonable price.
 
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