Remchokes Patterning Tight

Maritime Storm

Maritime Storm

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As a few of you may know I've been playing with a couple Remington 870's on the skeet & trap fields the past couple of months, yesterday I grabbed my filed gun, couldn't remember what tube was in it, pulled it out to find it was I/C. Put it in back in and off to the club I go. Shot 21, 21, and 17(not sure why, just had an off round). Halfway through the first round one of my squadmates asked what choke I was using, I told him. He said it seems tight, station 4 I inkball both targets, he asks me if I'm sure it's not Modified.

Are Remchokes overly tight, I've noticed my Improved Skeet tubes throw a tight patterns as well?
 
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I have 3 Remington OE Skeet chokes and an Imp. Skeet .... all but one of the Skeet chokes are on the "loose" side for what they are marked. I've measured all with a Baker bore mic. against the actual bore diameter. The constrictions vary from a "reverse choke" (or no constriction .... actually .006" larger than bore diameter) to .000" (Cylinder, but marked Skeet) to .005" The Imp. Skeet actually measures .002" .... I thought it would have been something like .006" - .008". Of the other 6 Remington chokes I have, they are all less than what's advertised, except the Full ... it's .038".

If you are getting "smoke" at the centre stations, I would suggest you pattern your chokes at precisely 21 yards from the muzzle. You should be looking at a 75% pattern at that distance to get good breaks. Below 70%, the pattern gets a little thin and above 80% you will be handicapping yourself. 100 good clean breaks are trumped by 99 "inkballs", and I really hate those "golden pellet" chipped targets !

I have found several instances of chokes not measuring what they are supposed to, not only with Remington factory chokes, but also with Beretta, Winchester & Browning, as well as aftermarket suppliers like Briley, Teague, Trulock, Carlson and Rhino. Invariably, the aftermarket chokes seem to be generally tighter than advertised.

Hit the pattern board and good luck with your search ! ;)
 
Curious. I may have visit the pattern board, which is usually standard operating procedure for me, for some reason didn't do it with this gun. I know tubes can vary by quite a bit, but to me seems this set of tubes patterns tight. May'be it's just me.
 
A bore mic is really the only way to know what you have for sure. Older gun manufacturers chokes are notoriously not accurate. I would agree with Beretta Boy's comments.
 
Storm ... there's only one thing for sure with barrels, chokes and different loads ... nothing's for sure ! .... even with two identical guns and the same chokes and loads.

The bore mic will really tell you only what you are supposed to have and not necessarily what's stamped on them.

The only quantitative measure is by careful, measured patterning.

The centre stake at Skeet is exactly 21 yards out, and in theory at least, you should break your targets before or at the centre stake. In most cases, I have found that for 12 gauge, .004" - .006" choke constriction yielding a 70% - 75% pattern of 1-1/8 oz. x 2-3/4 dram # 9's to be optimum. Lower numbers seem to be best with the 1-1/8 oz. load, the upper numbers with 1 oz. or 7/8 oz. loads ... just a matter of pellet coverage density and uniformity to ensure good clean breaks.

Most 16 yard Trap shooters break their targets on average at about 32 - 36 yards. For the the same percentage pattern yields, I find that .020" - 030" (Modified to Improved Modified) with your favourite load of 7-1/2's will work very nicely. Save the Full choke for 23 yards and further back.

Tom Roster has probably done more pattern work than anyone. He recommends you cut at least one (and preferably a few) of your loads apart and actually count the number of pellets in each ... may surprise you to find you have quite a few less than what they are supposed to yield from the shot
size/charge tables. Pattern for Skeet from 21 yards from the muzzle, for 16 yard Trap from 34 yards from the muzzle (adjust upwards for your handicap distance) Use 9's for Skeet, 7-1/2's for Trap. The industry standard for choke percentages, pattern are shot at exactly 40 yards, except for the 410 ... which is 25 yards. Use a 4'x4' sheet of paper and enclose the densest portion of the mattern centred within a 30" circle ... and this may not be the centre of the pattern sheet ! Divide the number of pellets within the 30" circle by the average number of shot in your load, not what the tables say.

A minimum of 5 separate patterns are statistically required to give good results. Then you'll know what that gun, choke and load is capable of.

A don't worry to much about little "holes" or uneven spaces in the pattern. The actual shot charge is 3-dimensional, not just 2 as shown on the pattern.
The actual shot charge is quite long, not flat like a plate and targets are moving through it. That may help explain why a flat, level dead straight awya is one of the targets most difficult to hit !
 
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Oh I know this, I pretty much always pattern any new gun I buy. Never did with this gun, it seemed to magically fit me, so I never bothered. It become obvious to me it hits where it should, question I need to answer is how hard. I don't have a skeet choke for my Benelli and never felt the need to track one down, at 22 yrds it patterns a hair over center and throws about a 35" pattern. This weekend, I'll put a few patterns on paper to see where I'm at with this Remington. I will tell you one thing though, the supplied modified choke and it play nicely on the 16yrd line, and whatever the Full choke is it certainly breaks targets with an ounce of #8 out to 40 yrds behind the trap.
 
Storm .... No sweat - didn't know how tech-savvy you are. ;)

I learned, partly out of a quest for knowledge and partly because I wasn't getting the results I expected, back in the day.

A new gun now gets the patterning treatment for fit and choke performance long before it ever sees a target or gets used in the field.

Remingtons often get the "home gunsmith" treatment for LOP, cast, pitch and drop at comp/heel before they get used at the range or duck blind.

I've found that by measuring the barrel ID. and chokes for actual constriction, that I can pretty much tell with factory fodder and/or my reloads, what kind of
patterns to expect. Blind faith in choke markings just doesn't wash ! I do have, out of the 35-odd Beretta and Remington interchangeable chokes I own, about two dozen that are "as advertised". The remainder leaves a fella wondering !

The two fixed choke guns I have are right on the money for what they are supposed to be. I gave up long ago on "aftermarket" chokes. While many are no doubt good products, I found after measuring & shooting that none were of any significant advantage - and seemingly, those with the big advertising budgets were the the most costly !
Many of those weren't "as advertised" either. And I really dislike ported chokes (and ported guns). Just my 2 cents worth. ;)
 
No modifications on this gun, it fits like a glove. We'll see what the board says on Saturday, have a shoot at Nova Sporting next Saturday, want to dial it in before I go and play.
 
The truth on paper is generally not what is invisioned. A couple 4'X4' sheets of cardboard, and the truth is revealed. My Imp.Skeet tubes are filling the whole sheet at 25 yrds, the Imp.Cyl. is closer to Modified, the Modified was closer to Full. Didn't pattern the Full, but considering it's doing what I want on the Skrap field, it's must be tight. What I was happy to find was that the gun prints a hair over center, which is exactly where I want it.
 
Best you measure it up for LOP, drop at comb & face, cast-off (if any) and pitch if it's that comfortable and putting it's patterns where you look !

I've shot many straight rounds of Skeet and several at Trap with quite a few guns, as well as several at 5-Stand & Skrap, and a few 90's + at Sporting Clays with a couple of guns, but I've been working at consistent gun mount, stance, fitting & patterning for more than 35 years. If I win the lottery, it shouldn't take too long at all with the gun fitter at the try gun & pattern plate ! ;)
 
I figure I'd just hang on to them instead, made the mistake of selling a Benelli once upon a time that fit me like glove, thinking I needed something better. The something better has new owner and a Benelli is back in that spot. After 2 bad experinces with Remington products, I swore I'd never own another one. Had a guy back in the summer shooting a new Express ask if he could try my Benelli, so I swapped him guns for a few stations and warmed up to it. Bought one for chasing Grouse, shot it well, so I picked up a second to play with.
 
I've had no bad experiences with Remington .. and currently have 6 of them. Won 3 more at Club Sporting Clay "pump gun only" shoots as prizes (Go figure !)
Previously had a 58 Skeet which I shot very well, and the wife shot her first straight with an 11-87 Sporter.

Glad your Benelli is working well for you. No matter what, a shotgun that fits & balances is the key. :)
 
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