REMINGTON 700 - One of the Best All Around Rifles?

I love how we all get to twist our arguments and direct them specifically to discredit certain individuals who oppose us, and credit others who align with us. Then there’s the positioning, bolstering arguments with photos and experiences which I fully engage in too. Once the instigator feels secure more pointed shots can then be fired from that position, and incoming shots are deflected, ignored, or absorbed. It’s a fascinating social experiment in action, a forum, and gun preferences sure remind me of politics. Criticise another’s preference and brace for every vulnerability in the arguments to be probed systematically.

I think we can all agree Remington 700s work and also that they aren’t the be all and end all of rifles. As for Africa I’ve been several times for interesting things and haven’t seen a Remington 700 in use yet, I know they occur there in meaningful numbers but so do .45-70 exploits.

LOL That statement from you I find funny today in this snow bound land I live:(

I love how some like to position themselves higher on the tree by using others like Seals or places like Africa or what ever to help their opinion

WHO cares that they don't use them in africia. We are in canada and here they work just fine as you stated above for what we need them for in 99% of the hunts that occur here. I will never hunt sheep or grizz so don't know there
Deer, moose, elk , black bear, coyote and caribou no problem I known first hand

You hunt and travel a DIFFERENT circle than most of us do that use 700's which is wonderful but it doesn't make a 700 bad because they are not in your ventures


Cheers
 
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What gets me, is you can tell someone that their inanimate possession has flaws and then can expect personal vitriol for years. They will attack your character, run your job through the ringer, make comments about your wife, insult your handedness, and the list goes on and on. I can guarantee I’ve owned dozens of Remington 700’s. I’ll likely own more. Who cares really? I grew up packing a rifle everywhere, have ridden hundreds and hundreds of miles with rifles in saddle scabbards, and yet two failures cannot be believed? It’s like circling piranha looking to latch onto anything they can. All from the anonymity of a gun forum.
 
The internet is fun alright. Almost as fun as hunting.

Ain’t that the truth. I take long breaks from this place when busy, then binge on the forum in the dead of winter when there’s little hunting or bush flying to do. The internet can make enemies out of us over ridiculous things when without knowing what the people on the other keyboard look like, you can run into each other afield and have tons in common. Happened to Hoytcanon and I, we argued like old ladies when we first met on here, far worse than this conversation, and ended up hunting multiple grizzlies together and having adventures that will stick for a lifetime. Not convinced the internet is something we’ve evolved at a pace to deal with, my brain’s still wired to debate stone point knapping techniques and here I am with a smartphone.

Thanks for the reply ardent, I enjoy the feed back ideas on the 700,,, mine have served me well in hunting and the 1 special 700 I own works fairly good at the shooting range... Of course my main target rifle is aloooot easier to work with since its purpose built...

There are many models of the 700 which is good since folks can pick the ones that might fit their shooting needs,,, of course every manufactor offers this...

Thanks to alot of the good folks that chimed in with helpful information as I Sloooooowly get another project underway,,, it will be another Model 700 since there fun to build off of...

Frugal funds,,, entertaining,,, and different after my friend does his magic... Ha

Cheers from the North

I envy the ease and parts availability of your build, built several 700s a long time ago and they are damn easy to work on and blueprint. There’s a 700 compliment from my side. ;) Cheers from the North as well, though you sound like you’re higher up I’m merely a short hop from the 60 line.
 
What gets me, is you can tell someone that their inanimate possession has flaws and then can expect personal vitriol for years. They will attack your character, run your job through the ringer, make comments about your wife, insult your handedness, and the list goes on and on. I can guarantee I’ve owned dozens of Remington 700’s. I’ll likely own more. Who cares really? I grew up packing a rifle everywhere, have ridden hundreds and hundreds of miles with rifles in saddle scabbards, and yet two failures cannot be believed? It’s like circling piranha looking to latch onto anything they can. All from the anonymity of a gun forum.

Start this thread on AO, see how it goes lol
 
I drive for a living, so the North is a few miles to get there,,, I'm actually closer to the 49th,,, but my friends in the lower 48 realize that I'm along ways away from Arizona and Florida...

Of course they aren't that far compared to the Rock on the East Coast... Ha...

She'd be a long drive there bye Lord Thundering Be-Jesus,,, no,,, I'm not from the East...

Ha...

A post popped up stating that all of us think were right,,, this is not true in my case since I practic being more wrong each day,,, yes that I have a few things figured out,,, but the majority of it has faded into the past and each day is a new begining...

Chewing on crayons and messing around with Remington rifles in the sand box is a new activity for me,,, that and looking at the sun at night time... LOL

I to have owned a few firearms over the years,,, but I've scaled back to the few I have left and gifted the rest to good friends and family...

The Shooting world is alot of fun when we share in the gift...

Cheers from the drivers wheel some where no where as I remain...
 
My other qualm with the 700 is standing in front of that safety as the guide, for all the safety briefings in the world you will get muzzle swept hunting grizzlies or mountains in the job. Many a 700 trigger gets home adjusted and many a 700 has had the safety turn into the sear after being ####ed with by the average joes. Even worse, blind mag ADLs that have to be cycled to unload, trusting that safety. It just ain’t for me and I don’t think any less of those who love them. But for me it all adds up to my least favourite bolt action to see in camp.

I greatly appreciate your experience and while by no means do I think my 700's are perfect, I see flaws in many of the other manufacturers that you listed previously too. CRF Winchester's don't always like to have a round dropped in the chamber and then the bolt closed on it. Instead feeding better from the mag. Tikka has a very small ejection port which can cause issues too (better on the T3x). The Sako 85 has issues with ejected shells hitting the scope turret and falling back onto the feed rails. Now I haven't played with many Kimber's or Forbes or Barrett fieldcraft etc but they are all machines designed by humans which all can be improved. I can certainly think of a lot of improvements for the 700 that I would like to see. 3 position wing safety and a better bolt release being a couple.
 
Ain’t that the truth. I take long breaks from this place when busy, then binge on the forum in the dead of winter when there’s little hunting or bush flying to do. The internet can make enemies out of us over ridiculous things when without knowing what the people on the other keyboard look like, you can run into each other afield and have tons in common. Happened to Hoytcanon and I, we argued like old ladies when we first met on here, far worse than this conversation, and ended up hunting multiple grizzlies together and having adventures that will stick for a lifetime. Not convinced the internet is something we’ve evolved at a pace to deal with, my brain’s still wired to debate stone point knapping techniques and here I am with a smartphone.

Some good thoughts here. I thought this discussion was quite civil really. Way better than the one about sending all the firearms to Alberta. I'm glad we have more common ground than not
 
Yes,,, I love the North along with the full length of the Rocky Mountain Range,,, both of those places will be home to me in my life time,,, all of the Americas that is...

I'm not 100% sure when this article actually came out,,, but this copy from 2011 is a good read...

The Winchester Model 70 was so close to pulling off military status,,, but it just didn't pan out...

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/3/21/the-military-model-70/

One of the perennially popular Winchester firearms of the 20th century is the Model 70 bolt-action rifle. Introduced in 1936 as an improvement on the Model 54, the Model 70 soon set the standard for commercial bolt-action rifles. Manufactured in a wide variety of configurations and calibers, it was a favorite of many hunters, shooters and gun enthusiasts. Although never adopted for combat use by the U.S. military, some Model 70 rifles were used as sniping rifles during World War II, Korea and Vietnam.

Soon after Pearl Harbor, two members of the U.S. Marine Corps Equipment Board, Capt. George Van Orden and Chief Gunnery Sgt. Calvin Lloyd, wrote a 72-page report titled “Equipment for the American Sniper,” which discussed the various types of rifles and telescopic sights available at the time. The report concluded that the best rifle/scope combination for use by U.S. Marine snipers was the Winchester Model 70 topped with an 8X target scope made by the Unertl Co.

This recommendation made its way up the chain of command. Before any official action was taken, the Marine Corps ordered 373 Model 70s chambered in .30-’06 Sprg. According to Winchester documents, these rifles were shipped to the Marine Corps on May 29, 1942. Serial numbers were in the approximate 41,000 to 50,000 range, and the rifles had 24-inch sporter barrels with leaf sights, sporter-checkered stocks with steel buttplates, 1-inch sling swivels and leather slings.

Shortly after the government acquired these rifles, Winchester reported that “all .30 Government 06 Rifles are now frozen under War Production Board Limitation Orders.” The company obviously wanted to sell as many of the Model 70s remaining in its inventory as possible. To this end, Winchester sent a letter to the U.S. Marine Corps Quartermaster on July 20, 1942, indicating it had 1,944 “Model 70 .30 Government 06 Rifles on hand, which we can offer you subject to prior sale.” Most of these rifles had 24-inch barrels, but there were 105 with 20-inch barrels. The letter, signed by Winchester’s Edwin Pugsley, concluded: “It occurs to us that the Marine Corps may be interested in an additional quantity of [these] rifles at this time and shall be glad to submit quotation if you will advise us what styles and quantities you may be interested in.”

About a week after this letter, the Marine Corps firmly closed the door on the acquisition of any additional Model 70 rifles. A memo dated July 29, 1942, stated in part: “Subject: Rifles, Winchester, Model 70, .30 Government 06. The subject rifles are not considered suitable for general service use for the following reasons: (a) Not sufficiently sturdy;(b) Parts are not interchangeable with M1903 and M1 parts; (c) Replacement parts will be difficult to procure; (d) Not fitted with sling swivels. These rifles are not considered suitable for use as sniper rifles. The 1047 rifles, U.S., caliber .30, M1903, ‘Snipers Equipment’ on hand at this Depot … are believed to be superior to the subject rifle both in accuracy and durability … .”

The Marine Corps clearly believed that the existing Model 1903, “tuned” to match grade, was a superior sniping rifle as compared to the Model 70. This is debatable. Regardless, the fact that there were a number of Model 1903 Marine Corps match rifles, along with spare parts, already on-hand resulted in the idea of a standardized Model 70 sniping rifle being doomed from the start.

Despite the Marine Corps’ firm rejection of the Model 70, some of these rifles did, in fact, serve overseas in combat, albeit on an unofficial basis. Sniper historian Peter R. Senich reported: “[A]ccording to firsthand accounts, a fair number of unauthorized telescope-equipped ‘personal and Marine Corps property’ Model 70s brought the reality of war to Japanese combat personnel during the early stages of World War II in the South Pacific.” The U.S. Army also procured a limited number of Model 70 rifles during World War II, but little is known about their subsequent utilization, and it appears they saw virtually no actual use.

The end of World War II essentially spelled the end of the bolt-action as a front-line U.S. military service rifle, but its inherent accuracy was too important an attribute to totally abandon, and bolt guns enjoyed a new lease on life as sniping rifles. The Korean War was the last conflict in which the World War II-vintage bolt-action M1903A1/Unertl sniper rifle was employed. During the closing stages of the war, the M1903A1/Unertl was replaced by the semi-automatic Garand M1C sniper rifle, which was soon followed by the M1D. These two Garand sniper rifles were the mainstay of the U.S. military’s sniper rifle inventory until the early 1960s when the United States became increasingly involved in the conflict in Southeast Asia.

The Springfield M1903A1 rifle fitted with an 8X Unertl scope was the only bolt-action sniping rifle to see any substantive use in the hands of U.S. Marines during the Korean War. The U.S. Army fielded some World War II-vintage M1903A4 bolt-actions but relied primarily on the semi-automatic M1C Garand. As was the case during World War II, the Marine Corps considered procuring some Winchester Model 70 rifles for sniping use in Korea, but these results were the same as before. A 1951 U.S. Marine Corps report on the subject categorically rejected the procurement of any new Model 70 sniper rifles: “There is no Marine Corps requirement for a special rifle for use by snipers in the Marine Corps. It is undesirable to inject another rifle into the supply system, and if another rifle is injected into the supply system, it is necessary to inject non-standard ammunition for this rifle into the supply system in order to exploit fully any gain in accuracy. The U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, M1C is sufficiently accurate for use by snipers in the Marine Corps.”

Despite this rebuff, the Marine Corps report went on to state that “[the] Model 70 Winchester is the most accurate American made, Caliber .30 on the market.”

During this same period, the U.S. Army also considered procurement of a modified Model 70 for sniping use as reflected in a memo from the chief of ordnance dated Oct. 30, 1951, which states in part:

1. The Winchester Repeating Arms Company has submitted to this office one of their Model 70 bolt action rifles equipped with a six-power telescope and chambered for caliber .30 M2 ammunition. The rifle has been modified to feed from a detachable ten-round magazine. The Winchester Company proposes the modified weapon for use as a snipers rifle.
2. This office has been advised by Winchester’s representative that the modified Model 70 yields somewhat better slow fire accuracy than the present standard M1C Snipers Rifle. In the absence of a stated military requirement for a weapon of this type, no Ordnance tests have been conducted.
Any further consideration of the Model 70 by the Army was rejected. “It has been determined that the increased accuracy of the Model 70 Winchester is insufficient to justify its introduction into an already overburdened supply system.”

Although adoption of the Model 70 as a sniping arm by the U.S. Marine Corps and U.S. Army remained elusive, the rifle did enjoy some measure of quasi-military popularity throughout the mid- to late-1950s. After World War II, George Van Orden, who had authored the Marine Corps Equipment Board report in 1941 recommending adoption of the Model 70 as a sniper rifle, started a firearms business named Evaluators, Ltd. Van Orden (who had subsequently been promoted to colonel and, later, brigadier general), eventually concentrated on marketing the “Van Orden Sniper,” which was a Winchester Model 70 customized to the specifications of his customers.

Van Orden was successful in selling the arms to many clients, including the U.S. Coast Guard, which purchased 10 of the rifles in June 1954. Van Orden’s rifles also enjoyed some measure of success on the target range, as Marine Col. Walter Walsh won the 1952 National Rifle Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio, with one of the “Van Orden Snipers.”

The success of the Model 70 on the rifle range attracted renewed interest from the U.S. Army as evidenced by a Feb. 2, 1955, memo from the Office of the Chief of Ordnance to the Chief of Army Field Forces, which stated: “It is requested that this office be furnished [with] your comments and recommendations relative to procurement of cal. .30-06 Winchester Model 70 National Match Rifles equipped with a medium heavy barrel for use during the 1955 National Matches.” The recipient of the memo replied on Feb. 7, 1955: “The total number of weapons required for the 1955 Matches is 204.” It has been confirmed that the U.S. Army purchased in excess of 200 Model 70 rifles between 1954 and 1959, mainly from Van Orden’s firm. They were intended primarily as match rifles and were not procured for use as sniper rifles.

Likewise, many of the 300-plus Model 70 rifles purchased by the Marine Corps during World War II remained in inventory and, except for the handful diverted for unofficial sniping use, continued to be used by Marine marksmen for match use throughout the 1950s. Many of these were subsequently rebuilt between circa 1956 and 1963, primarily at the Marine Corps’ “Match Rebuild Shop” in Albany, Ga. This rebuild work varied but generally consisted of replacing the original “sporter” barrels with heavier 24- or 26-inch barrels and replacing the stocks as necessary, often with new target stocks procured from Winchester. The metal was reblued as required. Thus, the Model 70 remained in the military’s inventory, albeit as a match rifle, until the escalation of the war in Vietnam, which resulted in a renewed emphasis on accurate sniper rifles.

A July 1967 American Rifleman article by Frank G. McGuire, “Snipers—Specialists in Warfare,” reported: “The 8X telescopic sight was chosen in World War II when it was teamed with the ’03 rifle. These scopes now used in Vietnam are the same scopes on newer rifles. Some of the snipers now in Vietnam were not yet born when the telescopic sights they use were employed in a different war. ‘In the early 1940’s,’ says a Marine Corps spokesman, ‘we were advised that a Unertl 8X scope on the Winchester Model 70 was the best sniping combination, but the ’03 was available in quantity, so we used it.’”

The Model 70 rifles sent to Vietnam for use as sniping arms were from the stocks originally procured for Marine Corps match use, chiefly from George Van Orden. This was confirmed in McGuire’s article: “The rifle team of the 3rd Marine Division had been using the Model 70 with the heavy barrel and the heavy Marksman stock. … When the need arose for more Model 70s the rifles procured by Brig. Gen. Van Orden, including Smith’s championship-winning rifle, were shipped to Vietnam as supplemental equipment.”

Peter Senich gave additional details regarding the use of the Model 70 sniper rifle in Vietnam in his excellent book “The One-Round War.” “Glass-bedded and accurized by Marine Corps Rifle Team Equipment Armorers (RTE), the Model 70s fired .30-06 M72 match ammunition having a 173-grain, boat-tailed bullet. In some cases, Douglas barrels were fitted to the Winchester actions to attain optimum accuracy. A limited number of 3X to 9X variable power ‘Marine Scopes’ of Japanese manufacture saw early use, but target mount, 8 power Unertl telescopes, unchanged basically from those first adopted in 1941, were fitted to the Model 70s as were many of the original World War II Unertl contract scopes, which had survived official obsolescence and the post-Korean War surplus sell-off. … While the USMC used the Model 70 to greatest advantage during this period, a limited number were also employed by Army personnel for sniping, and Model 70s with silencers mounted on them were utilized for covert operations in Southeast Asia.”

James O. E. Norell’s article “A Century Of USMC Sniper Rifles” related some interesting information by retired USMC Maj. Edward J.“Jim” Land, Jr., regarding the Model 70 rifles that were used by the Marines in Vietnam circa 1966: “Land first scrounged 12 Model 70 sporting rifles that had been procured by Special Services for deer hunting at Camp Pendleton. Through the PX system in Okinawa, Land’s NCOs bought mounts, rings and scopes. The second lot of rifles used by Land and his teams in Vietnam were also Winchester Model 70 target guns in .30-’06 Sprg. that had been originally purchased [as] ‘across-the course’ bolt guns for the National Matches. They were mothballed after NRA changed match rules to limit service personnel to shooting service rifles. … ”

Despite its excellence as a precision rifle, the Model 70 was never fully embraced by the U.S. military as a standardized sniper arm. Nevertheless, Winchester Model 70s teamed with the Unertl scopes were superb sniping arms, certainly better than anything else in the military’s inventory at the time. The Model 70s began to be replaced by Remington Model 700 rifles, which were later standardized by the Marine Corps as the “M40.” The Model 70’s suitability as a sniping rifle during the Vietnam War should be unquestioned, as the most famous and revered sniper of the war, Carlos Hathcock, used the rifle with remarkable effectiveness.

The Winchester Model 70 represented perhaps the epitome of the bolt-action sporting rifle. The rifle’s inherent accuracy was ideally suited as a sniping rifle. For those wondering why the military did not continue using the Model 70 and abandoned it in favor of the Remington Model 700, McGuire gave a cogent synopsis of the reasoning behind this decision: “[For Vietnam], the Marines wanted a bolt-action rifle with a medium-heavy barrel and a sporter stock. There was no real reason to stay with Winchester because the Model 70s used by the Marines were not the latest production models anyway, and no advantage would be gained as far as standardization of equipment was concerned.” By the late 1960s, the Winchester Model 70 sniper rifles were in the process of being phased out by the new Remington Model 700s.

As events transpired, the Model 70s pressed into service as sniping arms, especially during the Vietnam War, were really never meant to be more than a stop-gap or interim measure until a standardized sniper rifle could be procured. This is yet another example of the truism that a great civilian firearm does not always equate to a great military rifle.
 
And yes,,, the Winchester Model 70 did make it into the NRA museum in the cabinet of Korean and Vietnam War section...

http://www.nramuseum.org/guns/the-g...t-storm/usmc-winchester-m70-sniper-rifle.aspx

When your in the State Capital,,, please take the time to visit the Head Quarter of the NRA since you'll be hounered and humble to walk the Halls of Glory...

My trip there,,, Arlington military Cemetery,,, and all the State Capital Buildings is well worth the trip... Take at least 2 to 3 days to take it all in...

You'll also see the Remington Model 700 in the case section as well...

Cheers from the North
 
The internet is fun alright. Almost as fun as hunting.

Fun for some and frustrating for old guys and out spoken americans like me some times . Hard spot to communicate regardless the topic or people and easy to get into pissing matches that mean nothing
One thing I do know is I have never met a member here face to face I didnot like or would have a beer with :) but online one would think we would kill each other
Cheers
 
Only gun I have ever regretted selling was a Win 70 Stealth with the HS stock...that thing was a tank and really accurate.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that a standard M40 build off of a model 700 is getting underway way in my department...

If I recall correctly,,, there are 81 variance built off of the 700 action in Remingtons list,,, that adds to the good times...
 
I hear yha brother,,, either you like them or you don't... Ha

I like the wood stock version of it with the 23 1/2" medium weight barrel,,, if I recall they came it at + or - 10 lbs,,, I'll do a 8.8 lb'er in my build...

Most likely in the same dark ish Red colour like the 1968 addition with the semi drop down pistol grip...

Sorry that the M-40 didn't work for you...

Cheers from the North
 
Sounds like you aren’t really building an M40, but something to your specs with a resemblance to the M40. Which I acknowledge is a better idea for sure.
 
Yes,,, a copy-cat rifle...

Don't get me right or wrong,,, I really enjoying my 2015 Remington Model 700 LR in 30/06 with the 25 1/2" barrel in 1:10 twist,,, it came in at 11.4lbs with the Bell & Carlson Stock,,, optic,,, Harrison Bypod...

Jewel target trigger in match grade.
My friend did a zero stress bedding job,,, not really sure if it was needed,,, but what the heck... Ha...

I can attach my Harrison BR Bypod or Henery Remple rest if I'm at the range...

Normally I shoot it in the 100 to 600 metre range,,, I've been lucky to do a bit of long range stuff out West and the Fred Bragg Memorial Shooting Range...
We used it a bit in North Alberta and BC last year,,, it didn't make to the Eastern Canada Moose hunt since we tried a few other rifles instead...

The small 1450 yard gong was very challanging at the Bragg range,,, abventually I was able to get onto the next day...

Battling the winds was the biggest challenge...
I run it in the 800 to 1100+++ range since its geared up to shoot the 180/200 gr bullets,,, my preference that is...

Remington Model 700 LR in 30/06
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mJ54fL5Ad6rdzJFFA

So the time has come to scale back to a M40 wood stock design in 308 Winchester...
I might do a Carbon Fiber Barrel """if""" it helps knock off a few ounces...
I have another spare Jewel Match grade trigger sitting on the side line...
Hopefully Crisis in Calgary can make me a stock with the same design...

A bit of a trick to keep it in the 8.8 lb category,,, not sure if friends can pull it off since I'll farm it out to get built...

This is kind of what I hope to end up with...

Remington M40 in 308
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AVyp47MoTyTqoBaN8

Nothing special or over the top,,, just enough to get by hunting and a bit of plinking...
 
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