Remington 870 Express vs 870 Wingmaster

Wingmasters are great shotguns, but they’re not the be all end all like many claim; if there is in fact one such as that.

My Wingmaster is the only SG I’ve owned that has given me several problems. My 590 has been shot a hell of a lot more, and it’s ran flawlessly.
The WM on the other hand has had a broken firing pin (in 3 places) and a busted extractor. The firing pin wasn’t a big deal, although it did suck because it was only the 2nd day into a 2 week camping trip. The extractor on the other hand...

Easy fix on a 590, not so on an 870. Then again none of that has ever been a problem for the Mossy.
 
I own 3 Wingmasters and 2 Police. I'm well aware of the difference between them and Express models.

My point was the main difference (which I believe you said yourself in a previous post) is in the polishing/refining, the finish and a few small parts. All that can be done to an Express and you start getting near a Wingmaster cost and quality. I know because I've had it done. The Wingmaster is blued of course and the upgraded Express is Cerakoted.

They are easily on par with each other quality wise after all the upgrading. One looks more traditional/classy, the other looks more modern. They both shoot well, they're both reliable, bluing might feel a bit slicker in operation than Cerakote but that breaks in too.



3macs1 said:
Clearly from a guy that doesn't own wingmasters
Yes sir single ply paper will eventually clean your ass but man that soft charmin is heavenly :)
Same goes for a express vs a wingmaster
To each their own
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Justins1877 said:
Wingmasters are great shotguns, but they’re not the be all end all like many claim; if there is in fact one such as that.

My Wingmaster is the only SG I’ve owned that has given me several problems. My 590 has been shot a hell of a lot more, and it’s ran flawlessly.
The WM on the other hand has had a broken firing pin (in 3 places) and a busted extractor. The firing pin wasn’t a big deal, although it did suck because it was only the 2nd day into a 2 week camping trip. The extractor on the other hand...

Easy fix on a 590, not so on an 870. Then again none of that has ever been a problem for the Mossy.
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Well I guess IMO being around since 1950 and over 12 million produced there must be something real good about them
I wonder if that rattly 590 will ever some day be able to say the same. I like the mossy 500 but not the 590
Cheers
 
madashell said:
I own 3 Wingmasters and 2 Police. I'm well aware of the difference between them and Express models.

My point was the main difference (which I believe you said yourself in a previous post) is in the polishing/refining, the finish and a few small parts. All that can be done to an Express and you start getting near a Wingmaster cost and quality. I know because I've had it done. The Wingmaster is blued of course and the upgraded Express is Cerakoted.

They are easily on par with each other quality wise after all the upgrading. One looks more traditional/classy, the other looks more modern. They both shoot well, they're both reliable, bluing might feel a bit slicker in operation than Cerakote but that breaks in too.
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Good for you. Then if you cannot see and feel the differences especially in that police model vs an express not much I can say
To me they are night and day especially in how they cycle
Cheers
 
Of course I can feel & see the difference between the Police & Express models. I agree, it is night and day, that's not the debate here.... but you're not listening man.
After a company like Tac-Ord does their thing to completely redo an Express it easily ends up on par with the Police model on every level including feel when cycled. It ends up even smoother than a stock Police actually.

I'm not arguing stock model vs stock model. We both completely agree there.


3macs1 said:
Good for you. Then if you cannot see and feel the differences especially in that police model vs an express not much I can say
To me they are night and day especially in how they cycle
Cheers
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madashell said:
Of course I can feel & see the difference between the Police & Express models. I agree, it is night and day, that's not the debate here.... but you're not listening man.
After a company like Tac-Ord does their thing to completely redo an Express it easily ends up on par with the Police model on every level including feel when cycled. It ends up even smoother than a stock Police actually.

I'm not arguing stock model vs stock model. We both completely agree there.
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Cool and I am not arguing just commenting . I was talking stock guns and there was no mention of a tac ord modified until now
What do their mods cost I have no idea nor do I know how they feel
I only own stock models for both but I can tell you theirs must be awful smooth to compare against my factory skeet guns
Those are like a model 31 and as smooth as glass
Cheers
 
I was NEVER debating a stock Express vs stock high-end 870's. Actually, I've been saying all along in the posts once modified they are on par. I just picked Tac-Ord in last post because I'm very familiar with their work but there are others doing similar things.

Basically they start with doing what Remington doesn't do in the Express which is well known and documented. The do a lot of polishing and refinish in Cerakote and will swap out the couple springs & MIM extractor at your request. If you bring in your own Express a basic upgrade package is gonna put you in line with a new Wingmaster or Police when completed. Of course you can take it even further, depends on what you're looking for.

The improvement to a stock Express is amazing.

Other than the chamber polishing issue, my bottom line with the Express's I've dealt with is they really aren't that bad for being HALF the cost of a Wingmaster or Police. Add in that missing half cost and you end up with an 870 easily on par with the top line 870's.

All makes sense to me.... except I'd like to see it all about 50% cheaper so I can own more of em !!!

3macs1 said:
Cool and I am not arguing just commenting . I was talking stock guns and there was no mention of a tac ord modified until now
What do their mods cost I have no idea nor do I know how they feel
I only own stock models for both but I can tell you theirs must be awful smooth to compare against my factory skeet guns
Those are like a model 31 and as smooth as glass
Cheers
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madashell said:
I was NEVER debating a stock Express vs stock high-end 870's. Actually, I've been saying all along in the posts once modified they are on par. I just picked Tac-Ord in last post because I'm very familiar with their work but there are others doing similar things.

Basically they start with doing what Remington doesn't do in the Express which is well known and documented. The do a lot of polishing and refinish in Cerakote and will swap out the couple springs & MIM extractor at your request. If you bring in your own Express a basic upgrade package is gonna put you in line with a new Wingmaster or Police when completed. Of course you can take it even further, depends on what you're looking for.

The improvement to a stock Express is amazing.

Other than the chamber polishing issue, my bottom line with the Express's I've dealt with is they really aren't that bad for being HALF the cost of a Wingmaster or Police. Add in that missing half cost and you end up with an 870 easily on par with the top line 870's.

All makes sense to me.... except I'd like to see it all about 50% cheaper so I can own more of em !!!
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So with their mods they do to your express what does it add to the cost
We now comparing 1000 bucks to what??. I see CA$1,249.95 for one nigh####ch
I don't see the 50% saving nor has price ever been a reason for me not to acquire a nice collection of wingmasters
Used vintage is a great option also which is how 90% of mine made the safe
Cheers
 
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Nigh####ch is "their model" vs bringing in your own.

I don't recall what I paid for my work since it was quite a few years ago.

If you bring in your own Express ... like I said, some polishing and Cerakote, extractor & springs should run you about the cost of a new Wingmaster. You're welcome to call or e-mail them, very helpful guys. They have other upgrades/modifications which would up the cost more of course, like enlarging the ports for example if you like. I didn't bother with that.




3macs1 said:
So with their mods they do to your express what does it add to the cost
We now comparing 1000 bucks to what??. I see CA$1,249.95 for one nigh####ch
I don't see the 50% saving nor has price ever been a reason for me not to acquire a nice collection of wingmasters
Used vintage is a great option also which is how 90% of mine made the safe
Cheers
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madashell said:
Nigh####ch is "their model" vs bringing in your own.

I don't recall what I paid for my work since it was quite a few years ago.

If you bring in your own Express ... like I said, some polishing and Cerakote, extractor & springs should run you about the cost of a new Wingmaster. You're welcome to call or e-mail them, very helpful guys. They have other upgrades/modifications which would up the cost more of course, like enlarging the ports for example if you like. I didn't bother with that.
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Thanks but I am good on 870's. Lets just say have more than I have fingers and toes :) All gauges. Mainly wingmasters except 4 express I think
 
3macs1 said:
Not my words but I agree

How Remington lowered the Express price was to reduce hand labor to a bare minimum, and to eliminate much of the polishing and de-burring the better quality Wingmaster and Police guns get.
The Express is basically the same forged and milled steel receiver and heavy-duty internals gun the better 870's are, just in a rougher, less well finished form with plastic and MIM parts.

The Express Model has:
A plastic trigger group.
The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system, EXCEPT on the extended magazine versions, which do NOT have the dimples.
A rougher finish inside and outside, with machine marks and some burrs left.
A rougher, bead blasted blue job.
A less polished bore.
A two piece sleeved barrel.
Hardwood or synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end and pressed-in checkering.
The Defense version has 18", Cylinder bore barrel, with a bead sight.
The Marine Magnum and Tactical models have plated or polymer finishes.
Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor.

The Wingmaster has:
An aluminum trigger group, (Possibly changed to polymer in 2008).
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no machine marks or burrs.
The Wingmaster gun receives a higher level of inspection and finishing.
A fine, commercial polished blue finish.
A polished bore.
A chrome plated bolt.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut stocks with the famous "Bowling Pin" finish in gloss or satin. and better checkering.
Wide choices in barrel lengths and choke options.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
The Wingmaster is the full top-of-the-line commercial Remington pump gun, and is priced accordingly.
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3macs1 is the resident 8780 expert. Read this.

I own both. There is a massive difference between the two.
 
blasted_saber said:
3macs1 is the resident 8780 expert. Read this.

I own both. There is a massive difference between the two.
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I agree 100% .Not my words I posted earlier but I agree with them. No expert but having bought my first new wingmaster in 1965 ( yes still own it
:) ) , shooting a set of them in 4 gauge skeet and trap for years , selling them and working on them in my dad's shop and still owning more than 2 dozen have a little bit of hands on with them :)
Still have examples of 1950 to 2008 which is the newest model I own now and had apart. Have every gauge including a NIB 3 1/2 mag
Missing but one IMO a factory 16ga skeet which I have been looking for for about 40 years. Yes they made them
No idea really what they have been like in the last 10 years other than looking at them in stores but seem to still be fine
My favorites is a match set I purchased state side some years ago in 410/ 28ga skeet . They will die with me
No express looks or cycles like these 870 wingmasters :)
Cheers
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I just found this with respect to rust and the Express finish ... Personally I never had an issue ... but then I keep my firearms all well oiled ... very well oiled all year round .... and it gets very humid here in the summer ...



 
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My express rusts easily if I get lazy on the cleaning and oiling but it's still been a solid shotgun. Mines an older one with the metal trigger group. I got it used and changed out a few springs, the mag follower, the extractor and stripped the flaking finish off of it and rattle canned it. It's my workhorse shotgun and has been 100% reliable. I have a nice older Wingmaster too. Its shiny and smooth and is miles ahead of the express in fit and finish. The only change I made to it is the mag follower, not that the original was having any issues, more of a "peace of mind" thing.
 
I’ll take an express over a wingmaster any day of the week, yeah I said it. I’ll polish the chamber and hone the barrel myself if need be and upgrade a couple internal bits and pieces and with the money I saved I’ll buy ammo, plus I’d rather have an express that can take 3” shells over a 2 3/4” wingmaster. I wouldn’t feel bad dragging an express around the bush either.
 
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