Remington 870 shotguns allegedly are unsafe

mobgma

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Was going to post this in the other shotgun forum. Take it with a grain of salt.

From the firearm blog. The link has a CNBC news videos as well as Remington video response.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/04/13/yet-another-nbc-hit-piece-on-remington/

"CNBC alleges that Remington 870 shotguns are unsafe. Yes, they claim one of the most popular firearms in the USA, owned by 20 million Americans, which collectively probably fire in excess of 50 millions rounds per year and which has been in production for over 60 years, is fundamentally unsafe and nobody except an injured dove hunter and a serial paid plaintiff expert were able to figure this out. The paid expert goes on to claim that Remington has known about this since the gun went into production (1951) and has never bothered to do anything about it, despite using the same trigger group and trigger group components in a number or other products since then.

The best defense against this nonsense is the puff piece itself, embedded below. It is entirely unconvincing.

CNBC alleges that Remington 870 shotguns are unsafe. Yes, they claim one of the most popular firearms in the USA, owned by 20 million Americans, which collectively probably fire in excess of 50 millions rounds per year and which has been in production for over 60 years, is fundamentally unsafe and nobody except an injured dove hunter and a serial paid plaintiff expert were able to figure this out. The paid expert goes on to claim that Remington has known about this since the gun went into production (1951) and has never bothered to do anything about it, despite using the same trigger group and trigger group components in a number or other products since then.

The best defense against this nonsense is the puff piece itself, embedded below. It is entirely unconvincing.

Remington has hit back with a two videos and a statement (reproduced below).

The statement itself...

NBC continues to attack Remington and the firearms industry through sensational and factually inaccurate reporting. On April 11, 2012, Brian Williams again demonstrated NBC’s anti-gun agenda with the claim that the Model 870, Model 1100 and other Remington firearms have a design flaw. That claim is demonstrably false and Remington stands fully behind the safety and reliability of the most popular shotguns in the world.

It wasn’t enough for NBC to attack over 20 million Remington firearms; they also called the Second Amendment into question by suggesting that there is a need for increased government regulation of firearms.

Model 870 and 1100 owners know the truth – these shotguns are used extensively under the most demanding conditions. Tens of billions of rounds have been fired through these firearms, which are valued for their performance and durability by millions of hunters, shooters, law enforcement and military personnel who have relied on Remington.

As the basis for its attacks, NBC continues to rely upon paid “experts” who have been repeatedly hired by plaintiff’s attorneys to testify against Remington and at least 16 other firearms manufacturers. The facts show that the Model 870 and 1100 are two of the most reliable shotguns ever produced – only one lawsuit has been filed in the last seven years and no litigation is pending against the trigger mechanisms of these firearms.

Deceptively editing and ignoring readily available documents and video evidence to drive NBC’s agenda is an all too familiar tactic. Remington stands by the reliability and safety of its firearms and will fully respond to NBC’s attempt to disparage these iconic American products.

I would not defend Remington if I thought there was a fundamental flaw with the Remington 870 or 1100 shotguns. I have fired many rounds through these guns and I am comfortable with disassembling and modifying these trigger groups.

Eventually I would expect any company to manufacture a single faulty unit (or a unit that wears out faster than expected), but NBC is claiming that they have discovered fundamental fault in a 60 year old product's design, not a one off manufacturing error."
 
LMAO!!! I wonder what they have against Remington? First the Model 700 and now the 870 and 1100 shotguns! It's interesting to note that the "experts haven't mentioned the 760/7600 and 740/7400/750 family of rifles that use basically the same trigger group as the smaller gauge shotguns.
 
Hasn't this been floating around for a few years? I could have sworn I read this before...

Then again, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet".
 
Hasn't this been floating around for a few years? I could have sworn I read this before...

Then again, "Don't believe everything you read on the internet".

That was the 700. Now, apparently, NBC has two paid "experts" saying that the 870 is unsafe. Apaprently one of these guys has testified against almost every major firearms manufacturer. The best part is these two jokers have designed and patented their own trigger assembly and one of them allegedly testified that he would stop giving evidence against any company that adopted their trigger.

To date, no one has.

I got all this through Twitter and a link to Respect Remington TV.
 
The guy breaks one of the paramount gun safety rules and blames the gun?

Its essentially his word vs Remingtons when he says the safety was on.

Exactly! One of the first things I was taught was "never trust a safety." It seems all these accidents could have been prevented if they just unloaded the firearm while keeping it pointed in a safe direction.
 
Sure, it's a little disconcerting to think that a "safety" should fail, but come on... you get shot by dropping your loaded gun and it's the manufactures fault?!?!

He's obviously doing it for the payout, but they say he settled out of court.
Did Remington forget to have him sign a confidentiality agreement?
 
Sure, it's a little disconcerting to think that a "safety" should fail, but come on... you get shot by dropping your loaded gun and it's the manufactures fault?!?!

He's obviously doing it for the payout, but they say he settled out of court.
Did Remington forget to have him sign a confidentiality agreement?

My issue is he SAYS the safety was on. Its more believeable IMO that it wasnt and he said it was to

1) Get a big pay day
2) Lessen embarrassment/get sympathy

Anyways, NONE of this would have happened had he done the safe thing and unloaded his gun/not leaned it against his truck.

Side note, some people on this board ***** and moan about us in Canada being forced to take a safety course. In many states you dont have to. this case demonstrates why someone should.
 
My issue is he SAYS the safety was on. Its more believeable IMO that it wasnt and he said it was to

1) Get a big pay day
2) Lessen embarrassment/get sympathy

Anyways, NONE of this would have happened had he done the safe thing and unloaded his gun/not leaned it against his truck.

Side note, some people on this board ***** and moan about us in Canada being forced to take a safety course. In many states you dont have to. this case demonstrates why someone should.

I don't plan on dropping my 870 while it's loaded, cause I don't want to find out if the safety works then...

We don't have to take the safety course here either. You can challenge the exam, but I'm pretty sure leaning a loaded gun up against a truck counts as an instant fail. lol

I'm new to the sport and think it's a good idea to keep things like this in mind as a practical reason to be safe.

Why did I just open the action?
Because a dumb-ass who didn't, blew his leg apart.
 
I don't plan on dropping my 870 while it's loaded, cause I don't want to find out if the safety works then...

We don't have to take the safety course here either. You can challenge the exam, but I'm pretty sure leaning a loaded gun up against a truck counts as an instant fail. lol

I'm new to the sport and think it's a good idea to keep things like this in mind as a practical reason to be safe.

Why did I just open the action?
Because a dumb-ass who didn't, blew his leg apart.

Yes, you're correct about not having to take a course, but we still have to pass an exam so the point stands. Some states have no courses/exams at all.

If I remember correctly one of the parts of our exam involves putting the gun down (I believe it was for fence crossing etc). It would be an instant fail to tell the instructor you're just going to lean it against the fence.
 
CNBC ran a special about a month back on how the M 700 can fire without touching the trigger.
An interesting segment since they had original designer of the 700 (now well in his 90's) and a swat snipper team all atesting to the faulty 700's trigger group.

So now the 870 is under scrutney, eh. Has the slight smell of lets get Remington conspiracy. Or Remington has been very good at covering things up for 50 yrs. The plot and sagga will continue.
 
My dad had a Remington go off on him when he was flipping the safety off so he could work the action and unload the rifle. My mom and my sister and I were right there. Fortunately he had it pointed in a safe direction. Of course this is always the thing to do to avoid "accidents." You cannot shoot someone if the muzzle is not pointed at them (generally speaking).

However, I do have a problem with Remington as it looks like they knew about this from the very beginning, and instead of making it right, they covered it up with smear campaigns and disinformation. Saying "The user likely touched the trigger" does not cut it.

I know the standard response is, "well I have put thousands of rounds down the pipe of my Remington, and it has never given me any trouble." Just because it did not happen to you, does not mean it doesn't happen at all. And since Remington chose to cover it up, rather than fix it, I do not buy their products.
 
Me, I figured out which end of the gun was the dangerous end, and since then, things have been much safer. I don't care what gun it is, please do not point it toward anything you don't mind holes in, if there is a round chambered. You can take your safety and shove it where the sun don't shine if you do.
 
I recently repaired a trigger group in my 20 ga 870. The sear engagement was worn badly and if you banged it it would fire. Bear in mind the gun is a 1954 model, that has had thousands of rounds thru it over the last 50+ years. Parts do wear, and maintanance is required on things. If it moves it wears, and eventualy it wears out and needs fixing.
I had an 1100 that was worn beyond repair. After 2 gas chamber rebuilds it was just worn out. This one was used by a competive trap shooter before me, and I put about 15 pounds of powder a year thru it for 15 years before it was not worth re building. The trigger never failed, and I used parts from that trigger to replace the 870 worn pieces.
The other 2 870's I have, and 2 more 1100's , a model 7600, and a model 4 autoloader have worked flawlessly for thousands of rounds and use the same trigger.. Note that the actual safety is a cross pin. It can not fail, however the sear can wear after many many thousands of shots.
I wish the brakes and tires on my truck never wore out.

Pete
 
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