Remington 870 v.s Mossberg 590. for wild animal defence.

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I'm Looking into getting a good camping and bush gun. and cant decide which I should get. The Remington 870 tactical. or the Mossberg 590 special purpose. I want a minimum of a 20" barrel, and a full length magazine is preferable but I'll be happy with at least a 5 shot.

Remington advertised the 870 as holding 8 shots. Mossberg 590 however is said to hold 9.

Can anyone tell me why two shotguns with the same barrel length, and a full length magazine, have different shot capacity’s. I specifically would like to hear from people who own an 870 with the 20" barrel and the full length mag. Is this related to the shell length? Most company’s advertise the 2-3/4 capacity.

Are both guns threaded for a barrel choke? I'm pretty sure the Remington is.

Does anyone have the muzzle break that comes with the Remington, does it work effectively to reduce recoil. is it extremely loud?

Do both shotguns have easy interchangeable barrels.

I want to get a longer barrel for that extra bit of power and range. Can these guns be fitted with longer barrels or does the longer magazine make that option imposable. I have an older model Winchester 1300 defender 8shot. and cant seem to find any extended barrels for that model due to its magazine length. So for my next shotgun I want one that has available barrels at a fair price.

Of these two guns what shotgun would you choose? if nether, what would you choose in their place.
 
I agree with shotzee. For a lightweight bush gun you dont have to worry about beating up the maverick is hard to beat. Smacdonald sells a 20 inch security version that has an 8 shot mag tube, for something like $260. Hard to beat that, and if you drop it in the lake or beat it up who cares.
 
If you are looking to be able to exchange barrels (longer ex.28") for hunting or sporting purposes the extended mag won't allow this. Just something to consider in your search for the right gun.
 
I'm Looking into getting a good camping and bush gun. and cant decide which I should get. The Remington 870 tactical. or the Mossberg 590 special purpose. I want a minimum of a 20" barrel, and a full length magazine is preferable but I'll be happy with at least a 5 shot.

Can you get an 870 Tactical with a 20" barrel? I know some of the Police models are 20" and I think the desert tactical allows you the option of 18 or 20".

That breacher (looks like a muzzle brake) that comes with the 870 Tactical is not effective at all in my opinion. I took mine off and screwed an extra full turkey choke on because I wanted a tight pattern with shot. The tactical breacher extension that this shotgun comes with is just cylinder bore and doesn't keep a tight pattern. Also, the tactical breacher extension didn't aid with recoil or make any follow up shots quicker if that's what you want to know. I spent a good 1/2 a day patterning with various chokes and different loads...with and without that breacher. It looks cool but that's about it.

As far as choosing an 870 or a 590.....flip a coin. They're both good. The clincher for me was the ability to thread chokes and I was under the impression that the Mossberg barrels on the 590A1 were not threaded.
 
If you are looking to be able to exchange barrels (longer ex.28") for hunting or sporting purposes the extended mag won't allow this. Just something to consider in your search for the right gun.
I guess this is looking bad for the Mossberg. i just realized the Remington uses shot extensions for larger capacities. Its barrels are all designed to fit the standard 5 shot fixed mag they all come with.

Can you get an 870 Tactical with a 20" barrel? I know some of the Police models are 20" and I think the desert tactical allows you the option of 18 or 20".

That breacher (looks like a muzzle brake) that comes with the 870 Tactical is not effective at all in my opinion. I took mine off and screwed an extra full turkey choke on because I wanted a tight pattern with shot. The tactical breacher extension that this shotgun comes with is just cylinder bore and doesn't keep a tight pattern. Also, the tactical breacher extension didn't aid with recoil or make any follow up shots quicker if that's what you want to know. I spent a good 1/2 a day patterning with various chokes and different loads...with and without that breacher. It looks cool but that's about it.

As far as choosing an 870 or a 590.....flip a coin. They're both good. The clincher for me was the ability to thread chokes and I was under the impression that the Mossberg barrels on the 590A1 were not threaded.

Its good to know that breacher in little more than a hood ornament. And if your impression is correct, and the Mossberg has no screw in choke, thats a bigger sin. It may get scratched off the list if it can be confirmed to not have one. CAN ANYONE CONFERM THIS?

I love my 590, as a wild animal defense gun Id use my mav88 with butlet creek folding stock

Much less weight to carry around.

I agree with shotzee. For a lightweight bush gun you dont have to worry about beating up the maverick is hard to beat. Smacdonald sells a 20 inch security version that has an 8 shot mag tube, for something like $260. Hard to beat that, and if you drop it in the lake or beat it up who cares.

Does the maverick have the option of a screw in choke or a longer interchangeable barrel? (Although at that price Its almost worth getting anyway.)
 
590A1, or Marlin 1895G. The only two 870s I'd ever buy would be the 870 Police or the 870 Wingmaster. There are differences.

all the 500/590s that are more "tactical" are cylinder bore and not choked. I like it. The Maverick 88s are light, cheap and fine too, but I'd have them on the same level as 870 Express.
 
Years ago, I bought a well-used 870 wingmaster, with a vented rib, and fancy stock, for $200. I had a gunsmith cut the barrel to 20", and install an extension. After a thorough cleaning, that thing was a really nice bear gun. Total cost was around $300, and it shoots better than most tacticals, because of the vented rib barrel.

I recently bought a Mossberg 930 tactical. It's a fast shooter, but only has a 4 shot mag. You can't get an extension, because of the shape of the muzzle. It's a toss-up, but I might be more inclined to grab the 870, in a "situation".

Like another commenter said, "toss a coin". One thing I've noticed, Remington is offering some good deals on some very adequate models.
 
I've owned and shot both the Rem and Mossberg and there really is'nt much to choose from between them. They are both reliable and simple shotguns:). I've carried them both for animal protection when walking the fields doing crop damage claim adjustments.
Because I am walking and carrying a lot of work related "junk" I carry the gun slung and I like to keep it as light and handy as possible. I carried the Mossberg when I did field work in parts of Manitoba, especially along the verges of Riding Mtn Park, where there is a heavy bear presence in the crops( one farmer I called "Grizzly Adams" had shot 32 bears ,with the permission of the MNR, before his wheat ripened in 2 quarter sections:eek:). I carried the Mossberg with an empty chamber and loaded with slug rounds and found that it got a bit heavy and unwieldy with the long mag full and 4 more rds in the Speedfeed stock. I figured that at best I would get 4 rds away at an animal, so I loaded the mag accordingly and kept 2 rds in my pocket.
I do similar work in BC and have been carrying a slung 2 3/4 chamber M870 with a 20in bbl and 4 slugs in the unplugged mag plus 2 more in my pocket. This is a light and handy set-up. I inherited this same 1950s vintage gun from my late uncle who had shot a bear with it using a mix of slugs and 00 buck with the mag plugged to 2 rds and a 30in FC bbl:runaway:. This season I'm going to alternate with carrying an M1 Garand using 165gr Sierra HPBT handloads and will see how that works out on a comparative basis.
If starting from scratch I think I'd lean towards a M870 with a 28in modified choke bbl for birds and a spare 20 in bbl for use with slugs. Either rifle sights or a bead would work fine on the short bbl. I'd have the mag plugged for birds and remove the plug to allow more rds for animal protection.
Having said that, I also used the long mag Mossberg to field shoot geese over decoys. I plugged the mag to 2 rds and found that the cylinder bore barrel gave a satisfactory shot pattern to kill geese. It was fast and handy to shoot altho the long mag, heat shield, and bayonet lug seemed a bit goofy.:cool:)
For both guns, I'd try to keep them as light and handy as possible, so no add on ammo holders, flashlite gizmos, muzzle breaks,etc. If you were'nt concerned about weight, then I suppose one could consider the long mag, but if you can't get an animal down with 4 rds, he probably wins anyway.;)
 
You should just use your Winchester, realistically, as there is zero functional difference between a Model 1300, Model 870, or Model 590. All vy for the same market, do the same thing. The 870's the nicest to handle, and I feel the best built, the 590's rock solid tough and a bit clunky, and the 1300's clunky and not as tough (had a cracked 1300 receiver to prove it...). ALL will work for your purposes identically however. New guns are fun however.
 
I would go with the Remington. So many more options, but you have to pay, if you want to play. Mossberg is the economical way to go, and it works but you won't have the options of the Remington, if you ever want to upgrade or add on. Either one will work though, as is.
 
I stopped posting in here because ths decision tied my head in a knot. I think I have ruled out the mossberg. But in its place is the Mav 88. The only thing I dont like is the lack of sighs. I intent to use it for mostly slugs. so sights are manditory. I would like to put a black hawk recoil reduction stock on it. I heard the Mav is Mossberg compatable. So hopfully it would fit, now all I need is to solve the sighting problem. do they come with sights. if not then I guess its leaves the Remington. which seems to have all I need. and more. Which makes me think I should just get it anyway and enjoy the flexability of options.
 
If you are looking to be able to exchange barrels (longer ex.28") for hunting or sporting purposes the extended mag won't allow this. Just something to consider in your search for the right gun.
An extended magazine doesn't prevent exchanging barrels it just makes it a little less convenient.
 
If you can find one, an Ithaca M87 Deerslayer Police Special will serve just as well as the other brands.
Plus its about one pound less in weight, it has a real parkerized finish, and all it's internal moving parts are made from steel.
 
I stopped posting in here because ths decision tied my head in a knot. I think I have ruled out the mossberg. But in its place is the Mav 88. The only thing I dont like is the lack of sighs. I intent to use it for mostly slugs. so sights are manditory. I would like to put a black hawk recoil reduction stock on it. I heard the Mav is Mossberg compatable. So hopfully it would fit, now all I need is to solve the sighting problem. do they come with sights. if not then I guess its leaves the Remington. which seems to have all I need. and more. Which makes me think I should just get it anyway and enjoy the flexability of options.

I wouldn't do that.

The 590 is a much better gun out of the box, about the only positive things I can say about the Mav 88 is that it functions reliably and isn't dangerous to use. But lets take a critical look at both guns.

The 20" version of the 590 is IMHO too heavy to use with optimal speed, but when equipped with a Side Saddle and Speed Feed stock it carries 19 rounds of 23/4" ammo, so you don't need to load up your pockets with ammo prior to leaving camp. On the other hand, if you haven't solved the problem with the first 3 shots your probably won't. If I was purchasing a 590 today, it would be one of the shorter versions, and I would carry additional ammo in a belt carried speed loader.

One problem I have with both the 500 and the 88 is the magazine tube does not allow access for cleaning behind the follower. Because a defensive gun must be 100% reliable, this is a non-starter for me.

The 590 and the 88 essentially use the same action although the 88 uses a cross bolt safety. IMHO, a cross bolt safety is less convenient than a tang safety, but you can get used to either. The Maverick 88 has the stiffest action of any out of the box pump action shotgun I've encountered. I had expected this to clean up with cleaning, but it did not. The action requires much polishing before it is anything like my 590 was after it's initial cleaning. With the action cocked and the barrel held vertically, pressing the slide release will cause the 590's fore-end to drop half way, and a slight bump on the butt will bring it to the end of it's stroke.

One element that led me to choose the 590 over the 870 was that the Mossberg's ejector is held in place with a screw and the Remington is riveted in place. In the unlikely event of a failure, I can replace the ejector on my 590 with no more than a screw driver, and there being no gunsmith close by this was an important consideration to me. Other than that, parts can be easily swapped out to keep either gun functioning. Both the 590 and the 870 will provide thousands of rounds of trouble free cycling, if they work properly out of the box. There have been functioning issues with individual guns from both manufacturers, but given the shear number of guns both companies produce, this is hardly a surprise. These issues are evident right out of the box, and although inconvenient, are normally easily fixed by the respective warranty depots. Having said that, a fellow at work had an 870 that came with ejection issues he was unable to resolve. Tod Bartell had a thread a while back about issues he experienced with a Mossberg gun, but I don't recall the specifics or the outcome.

The plastic stocks furnished by Mossberg are all too long, and that should be addressed before using the gun for serious work. I haven't followed my own advice here, in fact I put a stainless steel spacer behind the recoil pad of my 590 to protect the rubber from the Speed Feed springs, and the 88's stock still feels longer. Its been a long time since I've held a Marine Magnum but I don't remember it feeling unmanageable. An after market stock can provide a solution, but is an additional expense as well. IMHO a pistol grip stock does not provide a natural feel, a good cheek weld, nor encourage quick use. Of course I haven't had much to do with them since I packed around an FAL, so you might feel otherwise if you have more recent and extensive experience with military style stocks.

The 590 comes with an excellent ghost ring sight which is fully adjustable and protected by wings. The front sight is a rectangular post with a red face, but Mossberg didn't go to the trouble of protecting this front sight, and in my experience it is the front sight that is more prone to damage than the rear. The 88 comes with a bead front sight that is mounted directly on the barrel that will cause you to shoot high. If you were to keep the bead it would have to be mounted on a pedestal so that the height of the bead and the height of the receiver were matched. It is possible to do decent close range slug shooting with a bead front sight, but not if the bead is mounted too low on the barrel. In this respect, Remington has it all over Mossberg.

The 590 can be had with a parkerized finish, and I like this feature very much over blueing, chrome or stainless. It is resistant to rusting, and scratches can mostly be wiped away with an oily rag. The blued 88 will not stand up to long term hard use under difficult conditions. The condition of the gun will suffer quickly once the finish fails unless it gets better than average care.

Finally the 88 is designed to be a no frills security gun. That it is. The bead front sight is unacceptable, the action is difficult, there are no provisions for a sling and swivels, and the chances are that the LOP is in need of being shortened. An 88 could be made into a good back country defense gun, but this requires time and money that you might be unwilling to spend, and that should be spent on a better gun. The 88's size makes it handier and quicker to use than the 20" 590, but the 88's magazine arrangement remains a problem. The economy version of the 870 is a much better gun than the 88. Rifle sights and sling swivels can be mounted on the 870 resulting in a better gun for less money than you get by tricking out the 88.

A worthwhile consideration to the defense shotgun is the addition of screw in chokes. This increases the barrel thickness at the muzzle and makes the delicate thin wall muzzle more resilient to bumps and scuffs against rocks, not to mention that you can experiment to see which choke produces the best accuracy with your chosen ammo. The addition of a hand guard/heat shield will also provide some impact protection to the barrel, should the gun be dropped, or the individual who is carrying it takes a fall.
 

Just when I thought this thread had bled dry, then in comes a load of info.:D
Well its safe to say the 88 is out. the slow action (among other factors you suggested) is the kicker for me. if you only get 3.5 seconds to react to a bear coming from 50 yards out. you need all the shots on target you can accurately get.

I had decided on the Remington before this post, and your post helped reaffirm that choice. Largly because it has a 5 shot mag, that uses extensions for additional shots, just like all Remington 870's. This makes the gun more versatile. if your in thick bush you can put on a shorter barrel, and remove the shot extension for quicker reaction as you suggested. I had not considered this factor until you pointed it out. I was going for maximum power of a long 24+" barrel. But a shorter one could be better in the bushy terrain where bears often can be found eating berries. I have done some hiking in such places, and came upon black bear.

I have decide on the Black hawk recoil absorbing stock, not because I cant take the recoil of a 3"magnum slug. But because it reportedly reduces muzzle climb, by softening the impact on the pivot point, (your shoulder) I'm willing to give this a try, we'll se how it works out. And it has the added advantage of a collapsible stock, which I tend to like for carrying in tight places and storing it in the Jeep. I am also more familiar with the design, as I've spent a lot of time shooting from a military style stock in prep for joining the military. (However its been misunderstood recently, the idea of me being in the military, this is not so, I was never accepted in, even after a life long pursuit, it came down to medical and other unrelated problems that kept me out. I'm now spending my time trying to get over it, by taking up varmint hunting again, and other sports. but military thinking is still engrained in me after such a long time. I'll get over it some day.)

I must also say its almost strange to find a hunter thinking out of the box in regards to tactical bolt-on's, such as muzzle breaks and heat shields. beyond their original set purpose, I had never though of them as devices that could protect the firearm if I trip or my jeep rolls and it falls out. Especially if a bear sends me flying into the next county. (Ive heard of them throwing hunters around before killing them.) So having a little extra protection is not a bad thing.
 
If you can find one, an Ithaca M87 Deerslayer Police Special will serve just as well as the other brands.
Plus its about one pound less in weight, it has a real parkerized finish, and all it's internal moving parts are made from steel.

I'll look into it, After all there is many other manufactures asside from just the two. Thanks.
 
I vote 870 with folding stock. No plug,2 slugs followed by 2 000 buckshot in the tube. Thats what i use during bear season ( non-hunting). Its fast and nasty and drops bears in their tracks.
 
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