Remington Law Enforcement Division - 870P Walnut IN STOCK

Getting a chuckle out of some of the comments here. I own, and have owned numerous Remington shotguns~old and new. In pumps, I currently own a 1968 Wingmaster in mint condition, a new 870P and a 2-3 year old 20ga. Express. My nephew shoots clays, and hunts his 12ga Express hard. If anyone reading this thread comes away from it thinking 870 Express models all junk, they jam, rot-out, fall apart...well, that would be a shame. It's simply not the case. Agreed~they're not what the Wingmasters used to be...but few guns are. I don't think Remington "does cheap" as well as Mossberg does (and that pains me to say as a Remington fan) but suggesting they're junk is absolutely ridiculous. You can find countless reports of rust online, but you can find people who say the world is flat too. Not sure what that proves.

If some knuckle head online buys his first shotgun (an 870 Express) and puts it away wet every time....then opens up the case one day and finds rust~of course he/she is going to complain about it online. Who among us (who buys better guns) treats them that poorly? I see this on here all the time. Guys with bigger budgets/more smarts who treat the nicer guns (they can afford) properly...then yammer-on about how crappy inexpensive 870s are when they're treated poorly. Give your head a shake.

I have decades of experience with Remington shotguns, and I'll agree that the 870 Expresses fall WAY short of the vintage Wingmasters/11-48s I've spent so many years shooting. However, inspect them before you buy them (which you should any gun, if possible)...treat them right, and they'll give you many years of good service at a pretty fair price. Yes, corners are cut. Yes, I'm sure there are stories of the odd one failing out of the gate. Name 1 gun make/model under $500, that has comparable sales numbers, and HASN'T had the odd stinker roll off the line.

BTW~sorry Wanstalls....don't mean to derail this thread. If I didn''t already have an 870P, I'd be buying one from you. Love mine, runs like a top.
 
richmyster said:
Beautiful guns. I have the 18 inch barrel with factory extended magazine tube. Beautiful stock and finish.

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Hey richmyster, nice shotgun!
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richmyster said:
Looking at Remington's site, they don't mention steel trigger group anymore. They must have replaced it with the plastic. From what my research shows though, the plastic is actually stronger anyways... The quality is pretty nice anyways.
As I said, mine has the plastic guard and it feels very well made. The gun is super smooth.
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just received a new 870p and its a metal guard absolutely, Ive never seen a plastic on a true police model
 
Think about it. There is just one 870 out there. Small parts ($30 value), finish and stock is what is different between all these models. If you believe in Remington's marketing...well, it's your choice.
 
hunterhenderson said:
just received a new 870p and its a metal guard absolutely, Ive never seen a plastic on a true police model
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I just had another look at mine. I should have paid closer attention haha, my guard is indeed metal. The texture of it makes it feel like plastic, but it was cold this morning and I was able to feel the chill in the metal...
 
The guard is made from pressed aluminum powder. Its widely believed the plastic guard is just as, or stronger. Largely due to the plastics ability to flex during impact scenarios.

Nestor said:
Think about it. There is just one 870 out there. Small parts ($30 value), finish and stock is what is different between all these models. If you believe in Remington's marketing...well, it's your choice.
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Are you listening to the words coming out of your mouth?
 
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EL34/6L6 said:
The guard is made from pressed aluminum powder. Its widely believed the plastic guard is just as, or stronger. Largely due to the plastics ability to flex during impact scenarios.

Are you listening to the words coming out of your mouth?
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There is only one 870 and they only differ by finish and furniture. Every time this topic comes up somone is trying to flush on us this marketing mess from Remington. The only difference in your 870 Express HD and the P is the finish, furniture and about $30 in small parts. In fact, go to the 870 retail parts list on www.remington.com and you could build an 870P 4+1 with a synthetic stock for less then you could build an Express 4+1 with the same stock. The bolts are identical but the Express has the MIM extractor and the P has the solid steel extractor. The polymer trigger plate assembly for the Express is bit cheaper, but the metal P assembly is less robust. Difference? Two springs in the P. Polymer is more durable, stays cleaner inside and if I ding or scratch it I don't have to worry about refinishing it like the metal ones that are painted. When you buy a new P you are getting a good shotgun but you are paying for a word engraved on the reciever and about $30 in parts. Think your P receiver is different? It is not. It is the same receiver as on the Express and Wingmaster. Go to the parts list and you will see the Police receiver price vs the Express receiver cost. Once you there, check out the Wingmaster receiver price too...why do those receivers all cost pretty much the same? Because they are the exact same receivers. If you own any 870 then your weapon is as good as the next guys no matter what is engraved on the receiver.
 
Nestor said:
There is only one 870 and they only differ by finish and furniture. Every time this topic comes up somone is trying to flush on us this marketing mess from Remington. The only difference in your 870 Express HD and the P is the finish, furniture and about $30 in small parts. In fact, go to the 870 retail parts list on www.remington.com and you could build an 870P 4+1 with a synthetic stock for less then you could build an Express 4+1 with the same stock. The bolts are identical but the Express has the MIM extractor and the P has the solid steel extractor. The polymer trigger plate assembly for the Express is bit cheaper, but the metal P assembly is less robust. Difference? Two springs in the P. Polymer is more durable, stays cleaner inside and if I ding or scratch it I don't have to worry about refinishing it like the metal ones that are painted. When you buy a new P you are getting a good shotgun but you are paying for a word engraved on the reciever and about $30 in parts. Think your P receiver is different? It is not. It is the same receiver as on the Express and Wingmaster. Go to the parts list and you will see the Police receiver price vs the Express receiver cost. Once you there, check out the Wingmaster receiver price too...why do those receivers all cost pretty much the same? Because they are the exact same receivers. If you own any 870 then your weapon is as good as the next guys no matter what is engraved on the receiver.
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This is the breakdown on the added Police features. More than just $30 in extra parts and different finish/furniture.

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.
• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.
• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.
• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer
magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.
• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.
• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.
• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.
• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.
• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.
• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.
• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.
• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.
• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.
• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.
• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
 
Many of the key points that Remington mess marketing department is trying to sell us for couple hundred dollars has no longer exsist yet these are constantly brought up in every discussion about 870s.
You would have to be able to see even when it was relevent how weak it was when they have to make a key issue out of the fact that the Police is built in a Special part of the factory, as if assembling the weapon 100 feet to the north east in a one million square foot factory makes the weapon better.
Think about that for a minute.
Remingtons problem, and our luck, is that their basic entry model is as good as thier top dollar model.
They differ by bell and whistles worth few bucks (that can be spend to upgrade your Express too) and some minor marketing upgrades.
You want a qualtiy fighting shotgun and have the money go to your to your local gun shop and get the 870 Police model.
If your wallet is thin the 870 basic model is the way to go. Either will defend your life the exact same.
 
I would put my Weatherby PA08 upland up against any pump gun. I have the Upland but I bought the 18" bbl for a PA08 TR and its been a tank for me.

Not much aftermarket support for tacticool stuff, but you can buy a mag tube cap with a light mount.

Works well, is cheap at about $500 for a 26" field barrel and 18" SHTF barrel.

FF
 
Nestor- The Police guns also have a quality parkerized finish vs the minimal bluing the Express gets. (which rusts very easily)

Aside from the crappy finish, the second worst thing about the Express guns is the dimpled mag tube some of them have, with that plastic gear to keep the mag cap on. I really don't like that...that of course can be avoided by buying the model that comes with factory extension.

Also, the Express models have a cheesier wood set. Let's face it, Remington built them to a price point so they could compete.

As for the Police trigger guard being metal...yeah, it's that pressed sintered metal which is less than entirely impressive. I would indeed believe that the plastic ones would fare better under impact.

The earlier Wingmasters had a really nice, aluminum looking guard that IMHO were the best of them.

The Police guns are pretty much certified to operate under extreme conditions as found in police work. That's the whole point of the extra inspections etc. Thus users like Police departments know they can depend on them.

Okay, so I've drunk the Koolaid....:rolleyes:


Nestor said:
There is only one 870 and they only differ by finish and furniture. Every time this topic comes up somone is trying to flush on us this marketing mess from Remington. The only difference in your 870 Express HD and the P is the finish, furniture and about $30 in small parts. In fact, go to the 870 retail parts list on www.remington.com and you could build an 870P 4+1 with a synthetic stock for less then you could build an Express 4+1 with the same stock. The bolts are identical but the Express has the MIM extractor and the P has the solid steel extractor. The polymer trigger plate assembly for the Express is bit cheaper, but the metal P assembly is less robust. Difference? Two springs in the P. Polymer is more durable, stays cleaner inside and if I ding or scratch it I don't have to worry about refinishing it like the metal ones that are painted. When you buy a new P you are getting a good shotgun but you are paying for a word engraved on the reciever and about $30 in parts. Think your P receiver is different? It is not. It is the same receiver as on the Express and Wingmaster. Go to the parts list and you will see the Police receiver price vs the Express receiver cost. Once you there, check out the Wingmaster receiver price too...why do those receivers all cost pretty much the same? Because they are the exact same receivers. If you own any 870 then your weapon is as good as the next guys no matter what is engraved on the receiver.
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You are totally right. 870P is much nicer shotgun than Express. Is it however any better? Answer is no.
If paying more to have a better finish is fine with you, there is nothing wrong with that. If however one feels that because of that he owns a better shotgun....well, it's only his own belief, nothing more. Facts are not supporting such belief at all.
 
Nestor said:
You are totally right. 870P is much nicer shotgun than Express. Is it however any better? Answer is no.
If paying more to have a better finish is fine with you, there is nothing wrong with that. If however one feels that because of that he owns a better shotgun....well, it's only his own belief, nothing more. Facts are not supporting such belief at all.
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Its better in terms of fit and finish and quality of parts as well as use and cycling the action, all I have to do is cycle a few rounds through my 870p and its all over, it wins hands down, the only similarities are , they both go bang!!
 
hunterhenderson said:
Its better in terms of fit and finish and quality of parts as well as use and cycling the action, all I have to do is cycle a few rounds through my 870p and its all over, it wins hands down, the only similarities are , they both go bang!!
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If you can feel a difference between two actions, you're not racking the damn thing hard enough.
 
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