Remington Model 30 The P14/M17's offspring (Detailed breakdown pictures 56K warning!)

[Smitsauce]

Hello,

I finally found my missing link between my Milsurp collection and my vintage hunting rifle collection. The first high powered bolt action sporting rifle ever produced from Remington. An original Remington Model 30, and from what I can figure out, it is one of the original ~3000 rifles that Remington put together in 1921 using the remaining parts on hand from the cancelled M1917 contract just before, or after, the end of WWI in 1918.

It is chambered for .30-06, has a 24" barrel, the original #### on closing M17 action, M17 two stage trigger and a dovetail in the rear of the reciever to accommodate the original simple rear apperature sight. It was changed to the Redfield adjustable aperature sight way back in the day at some point. Perhaps this is the rear sight that it was changed to on these original rifles as it would have been been an upgrade in adjustability over the original dovetailed aperature sight while maintaining an actual aperature sight before the rear sight was changed to a sight leaf on the rear of the barrel. It has approximately 75-80% metal finish on most of it with wear to the higher, sharper exposed areas and the wood is still very nice with the usual dents and character of an old time hunting companion. The bore is also VERY nice and it should be a great shooter.

I am very stoked to be the caretaker of this fine firearm that bridges the gap between a great battle rifle, the M1917, and a great vintage hunting rifle that went on to become what we see regularly today as the Remington Model 700. Steeped in millitary and vintage hunting rifle history!

If anyone else has any information to add or share on these fine firearms I would be very interested in hearing it as there is very limited information out there using google.

I have taken detailed pictures of all of the marked parts and different views of the assembled rifle as I couldn't find very much information or pictures on here about them either. There are a lot of parts that have the eagle head military assembly aceptance marks and almost all of them have the Remington "R".

Now to try and find a Rem 720!!!! Oh yeah, and a Honduran M1934 too!

Edit- Mods. I put this here because of its military history and beginnings and felt all those milsurp fans of the P14 and M17 would appreciate it the most. If you have to move it to sporting rifles, please accept my appologies.

Enjoy,

Ian

 

[Dosing]

Great post. It always surprises me how few of these you see. And I love that buttplate.

 

[jbmauser]

Nice! Great vintage hunting rifle.

These are about a million times better quality, in my opinion, than the soldered together, cheap to produce model that eventually replaced these.

I think I can say that in the milsurp forum without getting flamed too much.

 

[H4831]

Here is a young H4831 with what must have been a later version of the Model 30.
This one was marked "REMINGTON MODEL 30 EXPRESS," had a 22 inch barrel, single stage trigger, Lyman 48 aperture sight and cocked on closing.
I made a one shot bang-flop on the mule deer shown, but in previous meat hunting years, it had accounted for a great many game animals in the hands of an older brother, who owned the rifle.

 

[tokguy]

I think Smellie might have one of these. He's typically a good source of knowledge on Milsurps.
If I recall correctly and he does have one he'll likely notice and be a source of info.

 

[smellie]

I have the slightly-later model, the REMINGTON MODEL 30 EXPRESS, also in .30-06.

This is a rifle which showed up at a shop where I was working, about 20 years ago. I told my friend Gavin Tait, who had a strong interest in older rifles, about it and he bought it. On going to the range, it was found that the Leade was washed-out just a BIT too much; the old rifle didn't want to do any better than about 1.5 MOA. Gavin sourced an M-1917 barrel for it, attached to a surplus Receiver. When the parts got here, it was determined that the new barrel had been diamond-lapped and had a Match crown. With this set-up, the rifle now would shoot well UNDER the 1 MOA.

Another fellow just HAD to have the Model 30, so Gavin sold it to him, more than a bit reluctantly. Fellow kept the rifle for a couple years, then it turned up in another shop as a cheap "trade-in" on something made of stamped tin or some other kind of crap. Gavin, who was still kicking himself in the fundament for selling it in the first place, bought it back for more than $100 less than he had sold it for (and he took a loss on that), so the Model 30 Express went home with him again and remained there until Gavin's heart and asbestosis got the better of him. I purchased the rifle from the Estate, along with the ORIGINAL Model 30 Express barrel (which actually is quite good for a 1926 barrel) and it now has a home until I kick off.

My Model 30 Express is the first stage PAST yours: it has the ####-on-opening feature but also that lovely machined buttplate and the original 1917-type side safety. The Serial Number of my rifle is 16154. Right now it is wearing a set of Redfield bases. I have a possible line on a 1951 Nickle scope, so, likely, it will end up wearing that. The stock is very like yours, with the swelled fore-end tip finished off so nicely. It still has the dog-leg bolt, slimmed-out just enough to be pretty.

I also have here a BSA Custom Grade Sporter, made from a P-'17, back about 1960. It, too, shows what a beautiful rifle can be made up from an ugly old P-'17. It has the obligatory white-line spacers, a beautiful piece of wood and is equipped with a steel-tube Weaver K-4. It was the last rifle that my friend Gavin purchased. We took it to the range the next day, shot it..... and he gave it to me, a 'thank-you' (unexpected and unasked) for the driving I had done for him in the final 8 years of his illness.

And I also have a pair of somewhat-battered full-military P-'17s. When they are together on the range, it is easy to see exactly how Remington was able to make the proverbial "silk purse from a sow's ear".

I do recall a day when we had couple of P-'17s, the Model 30 Express, a Winchester 54, a pre-'64 Model 70 and a Remington 725 on the range, all at the same time. The relationship, and the course of modification, was obvious..... if you understood what you were looking at.

You have a very rare and extremely significant rifle there, friend. Thanks VERY much for showing.

 

[Smitsauce]

Here is a young H4831 with what must have been a later version of the Model 30.
This one was marked "REMINGTON MODEL 30 EXPRESS," had a 22 inch barrel, single stage trigger, Lyman 48 aperture sight and cocked on closing.
I made a one shot bang-flop on the mule deer shown, but in previous meat hunting years, it had accounted for a great many game animals in the hands of an older brother, who owned the rifle.

Man, I love seeing these old hunting photos, especially with vintage rifles that I now own and care for. It really completes and graphically fills in the history behind them. Thanks very much for sharing! Hopefully some day soon I will be able to take a similar picture (Definately in black and white, for effect) of it leaning up against a nice white tail or across the rack of a really nice buck!

I just recently bought a great 140 acre hunting camp with my father and brother-in-law that backs onto over 5000 acres of Crown land filled with marshes, bogs, lakes and beaver ponds. The game trails around all of these water features are like highways and there are spots that we have scouted where you have very wide commanding views of 300-400 yards. I will have to make sure that I am comfortable with her out to 300 yards at my range before I set up in one of those locations, but I won't mind the practice!

Cheers,

Ian

 

[Smitsauce]

I have the slightly-later model, the REMINGTON MODEL 30 EXPRESS, also in .30-06.

This is a rifle which showed up at a shop where I was working, about 20 years ago. I told my friend Gavin Tait, who had a strong interest in older rifles, about it and he bought it. On going to the range, it was found that the Leade was washed-out just a BIT too much; the old rifle didn't want to do any better than about 1.5 MOA. Gavin sourced an M-1917 barrel for it, attached to a surplus Receiver. When the parts got here, it was determined that the new barrel had been diamond-lapped and had a Match crown. With this set-up, the rifle now would shoot well UNDER the 1 MOA.

Another fellow just HAD to have the Model 30, so Gavin sold it to him, more than a bit reluctantly. Fellow kept the rifle for a couple years, then it turned up in another shop as a cheap "trade-in" on something made of stamped tin or some other kind of crap. Gavin, who was still kicking himself in the fundament for selling it in the first place, bought it back for more than $100 less than he had sold it for (and he took a loss on that), so the Model 30 Express went home with him again and remained there until Gavin's heart and asbestosis got the better of him. I purchased the rifle from the Estate, along with the ORIGINAL Model 30 Express barrel (which actually is quite good for a 1926 barrel) and it now has a home until I kick off.

My Model 30 Express is the first stage PAST yours: it has the ####-on-opening feature but also that lovely machined buttplate and the original 1917-type side safety. The Serial Number of my rifle is 16154. Right now it is wearing a set of Redfield bases. I have a possible line on a 1951 Nickle scope, so, likely, it will end up wearing that. The stock is very like yours, with the swelled fore-end tip finished off so nicely. It still has the dog-leg bolt, slimmed-out just enough to be pretty.

I also have here a BSA Custom Grade Sporter, made from a P-'17, back about 1960. It, too, shows what a beautiful rifle can be made up from an ugly old P-'17. It has the obligatory white-line spacers, a beautiful piece of wood and is equipped with a steel-tube Weaver K-4. It was the last rifle that my friend Gavin purchased. We took it to the range the next day, shot it..... and he gave it to me, a 'thank-you' (unexpected and unasked) for the driving I had done for him in the final 8 years of his illness.

And I also have a pair of somewhat-battered full-military P-'17s. When they are together on the range, it is easy to see exactly how Remington was able to make the proverbial "silk purse from a sow's ear".

I do recall a day when we had couple of P-'17s, the Model 30 Express, a Winchester 54, a pre-'64 Model 70 and a Remington 725 on the range, all at the same time. The relationship, and the course of modification, was obvious..... if you understood what you were looking at.

You have a very rare and extremely significant rifle there, friend. Thanks VERY much for showing.

Smellie,

Always a pleasure having you around for all of your wisdom. Thank you very much for the information. I will have to add a few pictures of my Remington made P14 for comparison at some point so people can see the similarities and the differences more clearly.

I may be able to buy a Model 720 at some point in the near future hopefully! Have you ever heard if any of the Honduran Model 1934's ever made it into Canada? That would be another GREAT find!

I will definately be taking this old girl out for walks this deer season. The old Redfield aperature sight looks like it will make longer range work a lot easier with some practice.

Cheers,

Ian

 

[sunray]

"...original Remington Model 30..." Looks like they just sporterized the military stock too. That a dent in the right side butt? Just curious.

 

[smellie]

Sunray, the Kaiser went to Doorn for his cup of tea on November 5, 1918. The revolutionary government in Berlin sued for peace immediately.

At that time, Winchester was turning out better than 500 M-1917s a day, Remington Ilion about the same..... and Remington Eddystone was making FOUR THOUSAND a day, plus spare parts.

With peace about to break out, the War Office started cancelling contracts immediately. Problem was that it took more than 1 day to build a rifle. At Eddystone, for example, they would have had about 16,000 to 20,000 rifles in process at any one time. The Army didn't need them, didn't want them and didn't want to pay for them, either. A formula was worked out whereby the Government would buy a HUGE quantity of spares and PAY for parts which were 80% complete, lower sums down to 20% complete.

That left Remington Ilion with TONS of parts.... and there were shortly to be a couple of million returning Veterans, all of whom now knew just how good a bolt rifle could be.

So Remington did the smart thing and brought out a civilian model rifle, using up a bunch of those surplus parts. The Model 30S (the first model, as this post) sold for $65: a month's pay for a skilled man. They were NOT cheap.

The military had enough parts on hand that they reissued the old rifles during War Two and the only parts they had to make were a big batch of ejectors (the only weak part in the design) and a much smaller lot of Barrels.

Previously, Remington had produced the Keene rifle, which was NOT a success, and they had helped to finish production on and market a thing called a LEE..... of which a great deal was to be heard in later years.

I have never seen a Costa Rica Model 34, sure would like to. I don't know if any ever got here; they seem to be rare enough anywhere else.