Remington Model 700™ VTR.

[redman]

Instant credibility because it appears that Redman is verifying that the pictures are in fact legit. Of course we can't verify the distances which is where the credibility of the claim really falls down..

I didn't really want to pass judgment; I saw that a fellow CGN'er wanted to post pics to back up his claim and I wanted to offer assistance since he PM'd me telling me he didn't know how... Hell, the guy doesn't know how to use "Print Screen" lol, he takes a photo.

So I figured instead of people calling BS on claims, posting the group would make for less speculation. Personally, based on the evidence before me, I neither endorse nor reject his claim since we have to base the distance on his word alone. I wanted to leave it to you fine folks to make your own conclusions based on something more than just a claim.

For Epoxy: even if he isn't telling the truth, who gives a hoot? There are tons of people making claims to BS groups on the Internet; if this is indeed BS, then it's just one of many such claims, no need to come down on it. Hell, just read 2bad4u2's sig

 

[Epoxy7]

Hey, someone asked a question and I gave them the benefit of my limited experience. I really don't care if you people believe me or not. I don't know you and you don't know me or my capabilities. I live in a small town on the coast and the people I shoot with know what I can do. That is good enough for me.
This is the last time I jump in because I don't like being jumped on. Just because you can't do it does not me others can't. Kevin.

First of all you obviously do care. So we've got another falsehood with that statement.

I agree my abilities are pretty limited. But even if I was the greatest shot on earth I still wouldn't be able to defy physics. The limiting factor would then be my firearm and ammo, not me. Your claim is ridiculous and clearly supersedes the capabilities of the given firearm and the ammo you listed. Could you shoot that at 50 yards. Absolutely. 100 maybe...... A big maybe and I'd still be suspect.

Kevin. Let me make something very clear. I suspect you're a young guy trying to fit in. This site is a great source for information and lots of people are pretty knowledgeable here. Rather than trying to push a bad position you might want to consider coming clean. Do that and I guarantee you people will respect you. Continue with the 14 year old internet BS and expect zero respect. It's your choice. Join the club and have fun, or continue only fooling yourself.

The olive branch has been extended. Do the right thing. If not I hope I never come across another post of yours. It's man up or get out time.

 

[Eagleye]

Maybe he has a zinger. It happens. Once in a while you find a factory rifle that eveything just works right on. I have a couple of these rifles, including a 30-06 that will average.75 moa with a wide variety of bullets from 150 grain to 200 grain, and several loads within each bullet weight. Someone called me on it, saying a production sporter just wouldn't average under moa with such a variety. I went through a set of 25 targets, and I did not cull any. Most were 3-shot groups but IIRC, 3 were 5 shot groups. The average turned out to be .738" He then accused me of shooting these at shorter range. I know what this rifle is capable of, and one thing is sure, It's staying in my possession as long as it continues to do this! I say give this fellow the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. A single ¼" group at 200 meters with a varmint rifle is not really that rare. Regards, Eagleye.

 

[Epoxy7]

I didn't really want to pass judgment; I saw that a fellow CGN'er wanted to post pics to back up his claim and I wanted to offer assistance since he PM'd me telling me he didn't know how... Hell, the guy doesn't know how to use "Print Screen" lol, he takes a photo.

... I neither endorse nor reject his claim since we have to base the distance on his word alone. I wanted to leave it to you fine folks to make your own conclusions based on something more than just a claim.

For Epoxy: even if he isn't telling the truth, who gives a hoot?

Oh I know you weren't endorsing it. I also recognized the trickery going on with him choosing you to post it for him. Before I call BS I do my homework. I've read your other posts. If you re-read my previous posts you'll notice I made a vague reference to that. I've also read his previous posts.

As for why do I care? Well lets see, someone gets BS expectations from a rifle from someone claiming stellar non existent groups. That person usually a new person goes out and drops around $1100 or more on said rifle scope etc, expecting it to perform. When it doesn't they're frustrated, just wasted their money and may leave for another sport. In a worse case scenario they extended themselves financially to make it happen. I care when one juveniles irresponsible actions can end up turning people away from this sport or causing them grief for no reason other than selfishness. I like this site, I value some of the very good information on it. I'm hoping it was just a mistake and the young man can learn to make it right. If not I hope he never posts on this site again.

 

[Epoxy7]

Maybe he has a zinger. It happens. Once in a while you find a factory rifle that eveything just works right on. I have a couple of these rifles, including a 30-06 that will average.75 moa with a wide variety of bullets from 150 grain to 200 grain, and several loads within each bullet weight. Someone called me on it, saying a production sporter just wouldn't average under moa with such a variety. I went through a set of 25 targets, and I did not cull any. Most were 3-shot groups but IIRC, 3 were 5 shot groups. The average turned out to be .738" He then accused me of shooting these at shorter range. I know what this rifle is capable of, and one thing is sure, It's staying in my possession as long as it continues to do this! I say give this fellow the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. A single ¼" group at 200 meters with a varmint rifle is not really that rare. Regards, Eagleye.

Yes but I've seen your groups and firearms on previous posts. Lets face it you shoot a lot and have quality firearms/optics, ammo etc. Also your groups don't shrink from .5 moa at 200 yards to .25 overnight (See his past posts). His did.

I deal with BS for a living. I know when I'm being fed it. I've been lied to by the best and the worst. Again I do my homework before making the call.

Eagleye when it comes to shooting I will defer to you. You have more experience than I do. I know that. I value your opinion.

When it comes to lying bS. I deal with this as a professional. I'm pretty good at detecting it. I've had a lot of practice and a lot of training in this area.

 

[dryfire]

This thread seems to have strayed a long way from the question about experience with the 700VTR and the 223 chambering.

If a respondents claims are believed to be apocryphal - so what they are only kidding themselves !!

We can't be the "Ralph Nader" to every newbie shooter looking to buy a new 'stick' to enter the sport either. Hopefully they'll check lots of sources for info before they drop their cash for a new toy. If they don't they can only blame themselves.

Oh,BTW I had a Ruger 77 in 7mm R Mag that would group under .5 MOA at 200m consistently. I thought that was pretty amazing. Bullets were loaded out so far the rounds wouldn't cycle through the mag so I sold the rifle.

 

[Epoxy7]

I'm not trying to protect people from themselves. I hate that. However they should be at least advised of BS. "Caveat emptor" is fine until you're stung because no one wanted to get involved. I can't save people from themselves but at least those of us that know better can point out fictitious claims when we see them.

If you don't protect the newbies, there won't be a sport. Plus It's called the right thing to do. Some do it for moral reasons, others have to be convinced it's in their best interest. Either way, there's no need for someone to waste their money. It doesn't take much to voice up when something is crap.

This thread seems to have strayed a long way from the question about experience with the 700VTR and the 223 chambering.

If a respondents claims are believed to be apocryphal - so what they are only kidding themselves !!

We can't be the "Ralph Nader" to every newbie shooter looking to buy a new 'stick' to enter the sport either. Hopefully they'll check lots of sources for info before they drop their cash for a new toy. If they don't they can only blame themselves.

Oh,BTW I had a Ruger 77 in 7mm R Mag that would group under .5 MOA at 200m consistently. I thought that was pretty amazing. Bullets were loaded out so far the rounds wouldn't cycle through the mag so I sold the rifle.

 

[redman]

Epoxy makes a good point of saving somebody some serious $$$$ if they were disillusioned into believing that the VTR would regularly provide the possibly exceptional group posted here.

That having been said, I think that the original poster should refer to other owners' opinions on this rifle, which they will find on earlier threads that were started on the subject (type "VTR" in the search box above and I'm sure at least 20 results come up ). This will give him/her a better impression of what to expect from this rifle, regardless of topgun223's credibility.

It's man up or get out time.

Sounds like something your avatar would say (scream?)!

 

[topgun223]

You know it would be nice to be 14 again. I am a fifty year old dinosaur who is computer illiterate. Although I don't see how that should be a problem for most people.
It seems to me most people on this website are ready and able to help when people ask questions. I have no experience with the rifle in question but lots of experience with the ammunition.
I am also a former firearms instructor for the PAL and RPAL courses.
Your folks can debate my merits till the cows come home but this is my last post on this subject as what has happened has no bearing on the question asked. Kevin.

 

[Epoxy7]

You know it would be nice to be 14 again. I am a fifty year old dinosaur who is computer illiterate. Although I don't see how that should be a problem for most people.
It seems to me most people on this website are ready and able to help when people ask questions. I have no experience with the rifle in question but lots of experience with the ammunition.
I am also a former firearms instructor for the PAL and RPAL courses.
Your folks can debate my merits till the cows come home but this is my last post on this subject as what has happened has no bearing on the question asked. Kevin.

By the way I know how old you state you are. Remember this " My name is **** and I live in Powell River, B.C. I am 49 years old, and have been married for 28 years....". I read that after the other post I made. I actually do believe that part. A bit hasty yes, but still based on your grammar, posts and trickery your claims are juvenile and a game I would expect from a 14 year old not someone that is almost 50 with instructor experience.

I definitely do not think you are computer illiterate. You've managed to log on here, use the EE, you even have a digital camera and were able to figure out how to send the photo. Computer illiterate. I don't really think so. Proficient maybe not. But still a convenient way to get the 200 yard wonder group to appear to be verified. I'm sure you could have figured out how to post it yourself

Regardless, you've made your decision. I still call BS on your accuracy claims for all of the reasons I've already listed.
The Olive branch was extended, you were given the chance to do the right thing. Your loss.

The original poster has also moved on from the VTR idea.