Remington quality control?
- Thread starter chuck nelson
- Start date
- Location
- Dah Soo,ON
The fit and finish on my Sako 85 is OK, not 1800$ plus tax OK though. As for factory Remingtons Chuck, here's a couple of mine that I still have pics laying around of.
XCR .270 WSM, fixed six Leupold, no bedding, factory stock (Swirley on order). I threw this load together last minute, no work up. 140 SST's over IMR 4350.
342 yards..
Model 7 SS .260 Rem. EDGE stock and all the other goodies. No bedding again...342 yards.
Same Model 7 in factory stock, bedded at 100 yards.
Vintage ADL 7mm RM 100 yards with factory Core Lokt junk
I have a Remington in 223...a varminter. I had to get rid of the tupperware stock for a Hogue. Ensured the barrel was free floating and now is a tack driver with 40 and 50 gr v-max. Deadly on Gophers and Coyotes.
I'm never getting rid of it. Thanks Remington, for a beautiful shooter!
I'm never getting rid of it. Thanks Remington, for a beautiful shooter!
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
When I got into shooting Winchester was coming to realize their mistake in messing with the M-70 brand, and for many years "The 700" was my rifle of choice. Having said that, there is more to a rifle, particularly a rifle that is used in the field, than accuracy. Townsend Whelen stated, "Only accurate rifles are interesting!" but the comment has long since been taken out of context. Minute of angle accuracy cannot be appreciated on a rifle that is used to hit big game animals at moderate range. The target is too large and shooting from field positions, with the exception of prone which can seldom be utilized, does not provide the stability necessary for that level of precision.
In my opinion, Remington has gone the way of Winchester's 1963 decision to cheapen their flagship rifle and destroy their brand name in the minds of consumers. The M-700s of today are not the rifles of just a few years ago. Their stocks, both wood and synthetic, have cheapened. The actual M-700 actions appear to be as good as ever, and a 700 action remains a good choice as the heart of a custom rifle. Many off the shelf rifles would do well with a stock upgrade and if that was the 700`s only problem, they would still hold a place in my heart. But their bottom metal doesn't`t even rate the word metal in the description. The DBM stainless synthetic rifles use a flimsy plastic in place of bottom metal, and a minor scratch in the bottom of the plated magazine will result in the finish coming off in a short period of time. The cost of bottom metal upgrades is intimidating, particularly when competitively priced rifles have good bottom metal. One only need look at the Ruger bolt guns or the new Winchester M-70. Remington has frequently marketed rifles aimed at the budget minded hunter, so there is no reason for them to cheapen their premier rifle beyond producing a good looking no frills hunting rifle. Yet over the years this has been tried with slender stocks with pressed checkering, or not providing iron sights on hunting rifles. Up until now, Remington has always pulled back from the brink and improved quality when short cuts threatened consumer confidence.
Brand loyalty is a two way street. The consumer will continue to support a brand as long as the quality remains high, but when cost cutting goes too far we consumers loose confidence in the product and look elsewhere. That confidence is easier lost than it is regained; just ask Winchester.
In my opinion, Remington has gone the way of Winchester's 1963 decision to cheapen their flagship rifle and destroy their brand name in the minds of consumers. The M-700s of today are not the rifles of just a few years ago. Their stocks, both wood and synthetic, have cheapened. The actual M-700 actions appear to be as good as ever, and a 700 action remains a good choice as the heart of a custom rifle. Many off the shelf rifles would do well with a stock upgrade and if that was the 700`s only problem, they would still hold a place in my heart. But their bottom metal doesn't`t even rate the word metal in the description. The DBM stainless synthetic rifles use a flimsy plastic in place of bottom metal, and a minor scratch in the bottom of the plated magazine will result in the finish coming off in a short period of time. The cost of bottom metal upgrades is intimidating, particularly when competitively priced rifles have good bottom metal. One only need look at the Ruger bolt guns or the new Winchester M-70. Remington has frequently marketed rifles aimed at the budget minded hunter, so there is no reason for them to cheapen their premier rifle beyond producing a good looking no frills hunting rifle. Yet over the years this has been tried with slender stocks with pressed checkering, or not providing iron sights on hunting rifles. Up until now, Remington has always pulled back from the brink and improved quality when short cuts threatened consumer confidence.
Brand loyalty is a two way street. The consumer will continue to support a brand as long as the quality remains high, but when cost cutting goes too far we consumers loose confidence in the product and look elsewhere. That confidence is easier lost than it is regained; just ask Winchester.
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
My little 7-08 youth is going to need a bit of tweaking on the feed rails to get it to feed 100% of the time. The bolt likes to skip over the case as the case sits to low in the mag sometimes. A common problem for many brands of rifles.
havent bought a new 700 in a few years so maybe my input is not so valid .but I have about a dozen of them all customized rebarreled and such .I have never seen a 700 that could not be made to shoot .The fit and finnish is not so fancy but I keep going back ive had weatherbys sakos huskys and any other brand you can think of some cant be made to shoot.On the weekend I tryed to help a buddy set up his new 3000$ work of euopean art with a new swaro z5 on it we tryed multipal ammo brands and weights a playing card would not have covered most of the groups.The set trigger and super smooth bolt could give a guy a wet dream but I think id rather take one of my remmys hunting or my kids savage edge whitch is worth about the same as his scope mount.
I don't get it. I seriously don't. Tweak the trigger, throw $5 worth of epoxy at the lug, and add good mounts and scope and I'm not sure what is wrong with Remington's barreled actions. This is indicative of every single one I've owned (this one is vintage 2011) and they will do it in factory stocks as well. I'll tell you I don't long for a Savage.
This is the first two loads out of the gate. I'll add a little powder to both and go at it again.
Chuck I've also seen your post on AO. I'm not a Remington basher, there are two 700s in my gun cabinet. I just don't understand your hate for Savage. They make a reasonably priced, reliable bolt action with just as much potential for customization as the Remington. Both rifles work, both are worthy of praise.
Working at a gun shop Remington has had more QC issues as of late. I see them when they come back. Not every Remington is like this, far from it, but it is something to consider.
While I can understand the thought of "it can be made to shoot", the fact is that an out of the box rifle shouldn't need to be toyed with. It should leave the factory, and end up in the buyers hands without requiring ANY work to be done. Of course I'm talking about shooting minute-of-tasty-animal here, not .0012 groups.
When I buy a BRAND NEW rifle, I should not have to have it re-crowned, have the feed path polished, replace the stock or bed the rifle. It should function 100% of the time, and shoot a group that's respectable to any hunter with most off-the-shelf factory ammunition. It's not something a person should have to pay extra for. Then again, it seems we are in the day of "economy" over function and quality.
All that being said, I've done a lot of looking at Remington products over the past 2 years, and even with all that's been said, I would still consider buying one. I've found nothing wrong with any M-700 I've handled in a shop, and while I'm not fond of the finish of the 870 express line, it seems to be more than an adequate gun for the money once broken in [like most]. I'm not too hot on the Versa-Max, but that's a personal preference more than anything.
To conclude, Would refuse to buy a Remington product based on things I've heard on the interweb? No. But it does make me look harder at what I'm buying. and that goes not just for Remington products, but ALL firearms I think about purchasing. If one manufacturer can cut corners, others can and probably will.
Cheer Y'all
When I buy a BRAND NEW rifle, I should not have to have it re-crowned, have the feed path polished, replace the stock or bed the rifle. It should function 100% of the time, and shoot a group that's respectable to any hunter with most off-the-shelf factory ammunition. It's not something a person should have to pay extra for. Then again, it seems we are in the day of "economy" over function and quality.
All that being said, I've done a lot of looking at Remington products over the past 2 years, and even with all that's been said, I would still consider buying one. I've found nothing wrong with any M-700 I've handled in a shop, and while I'm not fond of the finish of the 870 express line, it seems to be more than an adequate gun for the money once broken in [like most]. I'm not too hot on the Versa-Max, but that's a personal preference more than anything.
To conclude, Would refuse to buy a Remington product based on things I've heard on the interweb? No. But it does make me look harder at what I'm buying. and that goes not just for Remington products, but ALL firearms I think about purchasing. If one manufacturer can cut corners, others can and probably will.
Cheer Y'all
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
I've had all kinds of Remingtons from the latest SPS to Custom Shop models from many moons ago. I can say with complete honesty that I have had one single issue and that was a 700 Mountain LSS. I couldn't get it to shoot no matter what. I like Remington triggers and all I've had could be adjusted down to an adequate pull weight for hunting.
I'll be the first to echo Chuck's opinion on Savage. They are crude and cheap, albeit accurate which is the only attribute you ever hear anyone speaking in the same sentence while praising Savage. Perhaps the fact they cost nearly nothing has something to do with the fact they are difficult to criticize for all their flaws.
Regardless, for a workhorse rifle that's plenty accurate with a slick and durable action and easy to accessorize, my choice will always be Remington.
I'll be the first to echo Chuck's opinion on Savage. They are crude and cheap, albeit accurate which is the only attribute you ever hear anyone speaking in the same sentence while praising Savage. Perhaps the fact they cost nearly nothing has something to do with the fact they are difficult to criticize for all their flaws.
Regardless, for a workhorse rifle that's plenty accurate with a slick and durable action and easy to accessorize, my choice will always be Remington.
For the record....just so there is not any confusion. With my SPS, I chose to go with a new stock because I wanted to. It was already shooting about 1" to 1.5" MOA but I wanted better. Besides, fellow gun nutters had the same issues with the stock as I did (flexing in the hot sun resulting in it touching the barrel).
After I did, it moved into the realm of a tack driver. At the range, there was a guy with a $2,500 Weatherby (or so he claimed) and my little $680 gun consistently posted less than 3/8" to 1/2" groupings with my bipod attached.
- Location
- Dah Soo,ON
Look at the groups from my XCR, and ADL. Those were stock. I also had the following that shot MOA in their factory form.
CDL SF .30-06
Classic .338WM
ADL .25-06
SPS SS .270 WCF
700P .308 **edit** sorry this one was spray painted tan. which is obviously a modification
I already have a safe full of 700's, and I continue to buy them and am ultimately happy with them.
My latest shot ¾moa out of box with my handloads, and that is very fine for a hunting rifle.
Bash em all you want....it has exactly zero effect on my view of them.
Eagleye.
My latest shot ¾moa out of box with my handloads, and that is very fine for a hunting rifle.
Bash em all you want....it has exactly zero effect on my view of them.
Eagleye.
I like remingtons,Savages,Rugers, etc.
They are all fun to shoot!
I dont understand the hard lined hatred of one manufacturer or another.
I have had poor examples from each brand.
The great thing about it, fixing the problems taught me allot about each firearm.
Just sometimes its frustrating when manufacturers want to increasingly give a customer less and less for your dollar spent!
They are all fun to shoot!
I dont understand the hard lined hatred of one manufacturer or another.
I have had poor examples from each brand.
The great thing about it, fixing the problems taught me allot about each firearm.
Just sometimes its frustrating when manufacturers want to increasingly give a customer less and less for your dollar spent!
You nailed it here. Well said and you saved me a pile of typing. I've owned all kinds of Winnie M70's and Remlinchester 700's and I still love them.
Often I will tweak the trigger and bed the lug, and start grouping handloads from that point. Then afterwards once I get to know the rifle and stock combination, I will free float the barrel in the channel. Then the grouping with the handloads starts all over again. I don't mind, that's part of the hobby!
I will often get the sporter rifles to group into an inch (my benchrest technique sucks big time). My varmint guns often group into 0.75" with ease. Good enough for the groundhogs we kill! Not to mention, racoons in January season!
Yeah, the aluminum bottom metal sucks and I would prefer real steel, but the price point works for me since that area is not under stress (like the bolt locking lugs). Even if I dislike their bottom metal, it has never failed me in the field or on the shooting mound.
No doubt their tupperware stocks are flimsy and soft, but hey, I bought my 700 SPS DM from DelSelins in Vernon for $ 525
and I thought that was a fantastic price. That SPS DM black plastic stock is STILL my varmint hunting rifle and that's after I hogged out the forend's barrel channel. That rifle carries a .22-250 barrel in spring/summer/winter groundhog/coyote hunts. And during the fall for deer, I just screw on a (previously headspaced) .308 barrel! Down the road, I have the option of screwing on a (properly and previously headspaced) .308 target barrel and I've got a sniper rig started.
And that's why I didn't buy ONE M700, I bought THREE of them!
Yeah, I still love M70's but not right now (my M700's are in the gun safe).
Get out and shoot with what works for you and your budget!
Barney
