$1066 new @ wolverine. $970 is a nice deal, under a grand for an AR with a fluted floated Barrel..
WES1911 ...Let us know how it looks when it comes in
Remington R-15
- Thread starter 240wby
- Start date
$1066 new @ wolverine. $970 is a nice deal, under a grand for an AR with a fluted floated Barrel..
WES1911 ...Let us know how it looks when it comes in
Nothing is pointless but unlike you chipper I see the R-15 as a step it maybe a small step or it may not be but it is giving us a wedge to fight against the ignorant lieberal firearms laws.
Would I fight to get all AR platformed de-restricted yes I would and it is the goal but I am willing to not be a defeatest and take little steps.
People that give up before the fight even starts amaze me.
You don't seem to understand. The RCMP technical division decides if whether a firearm is restricted or prohibited based on whether or not the firearm is technically similar, or in this case identical to another firearm already named to one of those categories in the existing legislation, or if it has features that put it in one of those categories, independent of similarities to other firearms. ie; barrel length, overall length, caliber etc, etc.
The AR-180b, for example is none restricted because even though there are some AR-15 parts in the trigger group, it has a different lower receiver, different upper receiver and different action. It's not prohibited like an AR-18 because it has different parts in the lower receiver, has a different lower receiver altogether and is incompatible with the AR-18. Therefore it is a unique firearm and not specifically named in the act and not having any other features to qualify it for restricted status, it is not restricted.
The R-15 is technically in all ways an AR-15. It uses the same bolt, the same carrier, the same gas system, the same upper and lower receivers, the same trigger parts as any other AR. It has 100 percent parts compatibility with any other AR-15. Thus there is no technical reason that the RCMP could designate it distinct from the rest of the category. And therefore no legal reason too. Even if they wanted to do that what would they use as their justification. Remington is a bunch of nice guys, but Colt, Bushmaster, Rock River, et al are a bunch of #######s?
We're not giving up before the fight has started, we just understand that it's not even a fight. The only way to derestrict an R-15 is to derestrict all ARs. That's the battle that has to be fought. That's your first small step. Sorry but look out for it, it's a loo loo
dangertree
Business Rep
- Location
- NL/ON/FL/PL
The reason the Valmet was derestricted was because in the 1980's, the Federal Govt bought and paid for Valmets for Natives for HUNTING, then later said that AKs have 'no sporting purpose' and prohibited them. They were a bit caught out on the arguement when the FEDERAL GOVT purchased them as hunting rifles, they were being used as hunting rifles, then prohibited because they weren't hunting rifles, so they derestricted them. (I'd guess the Inuit told someone somewhere where to put it when they were informend their hunting rifles were now prohibited firearms).
If the CDN Govy had purchased ARs as hunting rifles for Natives, the arguement would be there. As that didn't happen, what we would need to have happen is for the Govt to finally admit that AR 15 rifles are legitimate hunting rifles, and as such, should not be restricted by name.
IMO, this firearm from this company helps bolster this arguement. Most ARs are not marketed as hunting rifles, this one is. The manufacturer specifically markets it as a hunting rifle. Does the CDN govt know better than Remington that a firearm is designed for hunting? This gives us no 'gotcha' which would force a regulatory change, but the Govt does have the power to restrict and derestrict firearms through an Order in Council. Remington themselves should be making the case though.
If the CDN Govy had purchased ARs as hunting rifles for Natives, the arguement would be there. As that didn't happen, what we would need to have happen is for the Govt to finally admit that AR 15 rifles are legitimate hunting rifles, and as such, should not be restricted by name.
IMO, this firearm from this company helps bolster this arguement. Most ARs are not marketed as hunting rifles, this one is. The manufacturer specifically markets it as a hunting rifle. Does the CDN govt know better than Remington that a firearm is designed for hunting? This gives us no 'gotcha' which would force a regulatory change, but the Govt does have the power to restrict and derestrict firearms through an Order in Council. Remington themselves should be making the case though.
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So how do we convince Remington to help us make this case?
Sorry, again Camp Cook, you don't get it. Plain and simple for you:
The R15 manufactured by Remington is an AR15, mabye its the paint job that throws you off.
If you want it derestricted, you get the AR15 and its passable variants (barrel length etc) derestricted, and then you can go shoot all the squirrels you want with your R15. Ask Remington to push it etc, show a need for it in the hunting community, etc... etc.. thats how you fight to get the R15.
If you try to show up with the R15 and get solely that specfic rifle derestricted, you will fail.
I am not defeatist, I belong to the CSSA, NFA etc.. I have an idea of how these things work and how we could fight to get the AR15 platform unrestricted, and I am all for it. But you simply don't understand how things works it seems, and would like to call me a defeatist.
Sorry for telling it like it is, believe me, I would love nothing more than to take my AR's out for more of a walk than just at the range.
The R15 manufactured by Remington is an AR15, mabye its the paint job that throws you off.
If you want it derestricted, you get the AR15 and its passable variants (barrel length etc) derestricted, and then you can go shoot all the squirrels you want with your R15. Ask Remington to push it etc, show a need for it in the hunting community, etc... etc.. thats how you fight to get the R15.
If you try to show up with the R15 and get solely that specfic rifle derestricted, you will fail.
I am not defeatist, I belong to the CSSA, NFA etc.. I have an idea of how these things work and how we could fight to get the AR15 platform unrestricted, and I am all for it. But you simply don't understand how things works it seems, and would like to call me a defeatist.
Sorry for telling it like it is, believe me, I would love nothing more than to take my AR's out for more of a walk than just at the range.
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22"
18"
Single stage trigger. Something about the bolt carrier is different as well (read it)
This is from another forum. (author Byron South)
I know where you guys are coming from when you say it is a Bushy with a camo job. The float tube and gas block are almost the same but that is pretty much where the similarities end(other than the obvious basic AR design features and standard AR parts).
This comparison to the Bushmaster and other AR's for that matter is very expected and welcomed.
I will see if I can explain how the R-15 is different than the Bushmaster or any other AR currently available.
The float tube looks very similar to the ones Bushmaster puts on their Varminter and Predator rifles, but they aren't identical. First, they are shorter on the 18" gun (Mid-length). They are they same length on the 22" gun. If you will notice there is also less cooling vents on the front portion of the tube. This is to accommodate a space to mount a light rail. There are holes drilled and tapped here to mount the light in the position you desire.
The R-15 also differs from the Bushmaster(and all others)in the barrel configuration. the R-15 is available in 18" and 22" barrel lengths of a slimmer profile than the Bushies. To my knowledge no other AR manufacture including Bushmaster makes barrels configured to these dimensions. To me this is the biggest and most favorable feature on the R-15 vs any currently available AR on the market. Why? First off is the weight difference and secondly is the length. To many the 16's are TOOO loud but very handy. By adding 2 inches to the barrel it makes it significantly more comfortable to shoot but the slimmer barrel still maintains the feel of the larger contoured 16" guns. Remington also wanted a longer rifle but instead of just going with a 20 or 24 like Bushmaster and all the others they settled on a 22" and stayed with the slimmer barrel to keep the weight down.
Yet another difference is the single stage trigger. This trigger was designed exclusively for the R-15. It is supposed to closely resemble a nice trigger on a bolt gun. I've yet to try one as I like the two stage triggers but I've heard from several people they are a nice trigger and adjusted to about 3.5 pounds from the factory.
The bolt carrier is also slightly different than the Bushies.
In a nut shell, this is a way different gun than the Bushmasters and is the first AR designed from the ground up to accommodate the predator hunter. I know this because I help design it. Like I said earlier, comparisons of this rifle with Bushies and others is expected and welcomed but believe me when I say these are not Bushmaster rifles with a Remington roll mark on them.
1. Different barrels (length and contour) button rifled.
2. Different float tube (drilled and tapped for light rail which is included)
3. Nice single stage trigger (Two Stage available on signature gun)
4. Different bolt carrier
5. Camo is standard.
6. Less expensive.
6. also available in .204
I'm not offended that the R-15 is compared to the Bushmaster at all, in fact I think of it as a compliment to the R-15. Remington doesn't hide the fact that Bushmaster was leaned on to an extent for the development and production of this rifle. I believe this was a very smart move. I'm not saying any of this in an attempt to distance the R-15 from Bushmaster but simply to say the R-15 is not a Bushmaster with a Remington name taped over it. If you will compare its features you will see it is a completetly different rifle.
18"
Single stage trigger. Something about the bolt carrier is different as well (read it)
This is from another forum. (author Byron South)
I know where you guys are coming from when you say it is a Bushy with a camo job. The float tube and gas block are almost the same but that is pretty much where the similarities end(other than the obvious basic AR design features and standard AR parts).
This comparison to the Bushmaster and other AR's for that matter is very expected and welcomed.
I will see if I can explain how the R-15 is different than the Bushmaster or any other AR currently available.
The float tube looks very similar to the ones Bushmaster puts on their Varminter and Predator rifles, but they aren't identical. First, they are shorter on the 18" gun (Mid-length). They are they same length on the 22" gun. If you will notice there is also less cooling vents on the front portion of the tube. This is to accommodate a space to mount a light rail. There are holes drilled and tapped here to mount the light in the position you desire.
The R-15 also differs from the Bushmaster(and all others)in the barrel configuration. the R-15 is available in 18" and 22" barrel lengths of a slimmer profile than the Bushies. To my knowledge no other AR manufacture including Bushmaster makes barrels configured to these dimensions. To me this is the biggest and most favorable feature on the R-15 vs any currently available AR on the market. Why? First off is the weight difference and secondly is the length. To many the 16's are TOOO loud but very handy. By adding 2 inches to the barrel it makes it significantly more comfortable to shoot but the slimmer barrel still maintains the feel of the larger contoured 16" guns. Remington also wanted a longer rifle but instead of just going with a 20 or 24 like Bushmaster and all the others they settled on a 22" and stayed with the slimmer barrel to keep the weight down.
Yet another difference is the single stage trigger. This trigger was designed exclusively for the R-15. It is supposed to closely resemble a nice trigger on a bolt gun. I've yet to try one as I like the two stage triggers but I've heard from several people they are a nice trigger and adjusted to about 3.5 pounds from the factory.
The bolt carrier is also slightly different than the Bushies.
In a nut shell, this is a way different gun than the Bushmasters and is the first AR designed from the ground up to accommodate the predator hunter. I know this because I help design it. Like I said earlier, comparisons of this rifle with Bushies and others is expected and welcomed but believe me when I say these are not Bushmaster rifles with a Remington roll mark on them.
1. Different barrels (length and contour) button rifled.
2. Different float tube (drilled and tapped for light rail which is included)
3. Nice single stage trigger (Two Stage available on signature gun)
4. Different bolt carrier
5. Camo is standard.
6. Less expensive.
6. also available in .204
I'm not offended that the R-15 is compared to the Bushmaster at all, in fact I think of it as a compliment to the R-15. Remington doesn't hide the fact that Bushmaster was leaned on to an extent for the development and production of this rifle. I believe this was a very smart move. I'm not saying any of this in an attempt to distance the R-15 from Bushmaster but simply to say the R-15 is not a Bushmaster with a Remington name taped over it. If you will compare its features you will see it is a completetly different rifle.
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Excellent post assyrian good to see someone that is involved in the positives of this rifle.
For you guys that figure I don't get it I do get it far more than either of you put together the difference is that I am not a defeatist saying it will never happen.
Same for CCW you probably say that will never happen either whereas I say it is very possible in the next 5 - 10 years especially if we get a majority CPC government.
Let me give you an example 25 years ago I new for a fact that I would never legally carry handguns in the bush I have now been doing it for over 6 years.
I will also fight against anyone that stands in the way of legal ownership of any firearm or the legal use of that firearm in the bush.
For you guys that figure I don't get it I do get it far more than either of you put together the difference is that I am not a defeatist saying it will never happen.
Same for CCW you probably say that will never happen either whereas I say it is very possible in the next 5 - 10 years especially if we get a majority CPC government.
Let me give you an example 25 years ago I new for a fact that I would never legally carry handguns in the bush I have now been doing it for over 6 years.
I will also fight against anyone that stands in the way of legal ownership of any firearm or the legal use of that firearm in the bush.
dangertree
Business Rep
- Location
- NL/ON/FL/PL
The barrel/free float of this AR15 being different from the Bushmaster Varminter AR15 doesn't a different rifle make, unfortunately. It's an AR15, restricted by name.
I never said de-restricted AR's wasn't going to happen, I explained that you need to attempt to de-restrict the AR platform, not soley the R15 in order to get the R15 for use in the bush. For all purposes, the R15 is an AR15. Floating the barrel, differing lenghts, different calibers, does not exclude it from being an AR15. Perhaps you need to read up on AR15's.
The derestrict the AR15 platform is the battle to fight. Not de-restrict the R15. The R15 helps, but it is nothing than a camo painted AR. Deal with it, and join the fight.
The derestrict the AR15 platform is the battle to fight. Not de-restrict the R15. The R15 helps, but it is nothing than a camo painted AR. Deal with it, and join the fight.
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Chip thanks for the thoughts...
Let me let you in on a secret when you click enter your entire post is sent out not just the part you edit off later.
Let me try and explain my thinking to you so that we do not continue to butt heads over this.
The R-15 is a hunting rifle, yes it is on the AR platform and it is being sold/marketed by Remington a manufacturer of hunting firearms.
I am unaware of any other AR rifle that is marketed specifically for hunting.
Do I see a tool to take to my M/P or Minister to try and get the entire AR platform de-restricted "YES" I do...
I guess my style is to take what ever I can find and use it in my/our fight for firearms freedoms.
Code:
$1066 new @ wolverine. $970 is a nice deal, under a grand for an AR with a fluted floated Barrel..
WES1911 ...Let us know how it looks when it comes inI'll send picks and a full road test as soon as I get my hands on it. I'm glad for the comments since I thought the AR crowd would look at this and go... cheap, entry-level Bushmaster, not worth ####. Well, kinda like when the Norinco pistols were first introduced.
From my perspective thought, it's a great place to start.
Camp Cook, thanks for the thoughts
Again, the R15 is not a hunting rifle, any more so than any other AR15 is or can be used for hunting. Having a camo paintjob does not make it a hunting rifle. And for the record, there are MANY other AR's specifically marketed as hunting or varmit guns. Perhaps some research on your part would help you with this.
Bushmaster varminter, RRA Coyote Rifle, Predator Pursuit etc.. etc..
I'm going to let this one go, as I don't think its going anywhere. I can fight for my own freedoms without your help. I much prefer to research things and choose to fight battles that are winnable, one step at a time, rather than blunder into failure over and over again, as so many in the firearms community seem willing to do.
Again, the R15 is not a hunting rifle, any more so than any other AR15 is or can be used for hunting. Having a camo paintjob does not make it a hunting rifle. And for the record, there are MANY other AR's specifically marketed as hunting or varmit guns. Perhaps some research on your part would help you with this.
Bushmaster varminter, RRA Coyote Rifle, Predator Pursuit etc.. etc..
I'm going to let this one go, as I don't think its going anywhere. I can fight for my own freedoms without your help. I much prefer to research things and choose to fight battles that are winnable, one step at a time, rather than blunder into failure over and over again, as so many in the firearms community seem willing to do.
You missed my point again unlike Remington not one of the firearms maufacturers that you mentioned is a major name in the manufacture of hunting firearms.
It's good to hear that you can fight your own battles unlike you I work with others when the battles are big...
I will agree spending anymore time explaining my reasoning and disgust of those that give up before the fight begins is a total waste of time.
It's good to hear that you can fight your own battles unlike you I work with others when the battles are big...
I will agree spending anymore time explaining my reasoning and disgust of those that give up before the fight begins is a total waste of time.
Remington, DPMS, and Bushmaster are all owned by Cerberus Capital Management (the guys that currently own Chrysler as well), so the R-15, Panther, and Bushmaster Predator all technically come from the same company... And how did the heritage of the company of origin factor into the restricted/unrestricted evaluation?
Back to the features you listed, the DPMS Arctic Panther, Panther Bull 20, and Bushmaster Predator all sport the 20 inch barrel, the Bushmasters are avaiable with the paint job, and DPMS offers rifles in not just .204, but also .243, .260, .300, and 6.5 mm, and a single shot 5.56mm.
The Remington smells like an effort by Cerberus to get more use out of their assets. They own a bunch of AR-makers, so why not offer an AR for Remington, now that they own it?
Back to the features you listed, the DPMS Arctic Panther, Panther Bull 20, and Bushmaster Predator all sport the 20 inch barrel, the Bushmasters are avaiable with the paint job, and DPMS offers rifles in not just .204, but also .243, .260, .300, and 6.5 mm, and a single shot 5.56mm.
The Remington smells like an effort by Cerberus to get more use out of their assets. They own a bunch of AR-makers, so why not offer an AR for Remington, now that they own it?
OK let me try this again...
Up until recently when Cerberus Capital Management purchased Remington no other major traditional/hunting firearms manufacturers produced a rifle on an AR platform specifically for hunting.
With that I am done what a freaking waste of time this has been...
Up until recently when Cerberus Capital Management purchased Remington no other major traditional/hunting firearms manufacturers produced a rifle on an AR platform specifically for hunting.
With that I am done what a freaking waste of time this has been...
Just got back from bear hunting so I haven't had a chance to reply to all the comments started by my post.
The Valmet M 78 is no different than any other AK (RPK) type weapon, yet is was made an exception to the AK classification. My thinking is that we try for a similar exception for the R 15.
Is this logical? No. Obviously an R15 is basically the same as any AR 15; however we are talking politics not logic. I feel that allowing the R 15 to be an unrestricted exception to the restricted status is basically a way for us to get an AR 15 we can hunt with while saving the politicians some face.
It is also a tactic in the same vien as those which our enemies use against us frequently. We should be asserting loudly that the R 15 is a very different beast than any other AR 15 and the rules are depriving us harmless Elmer Fudds from a perfectly good and safe tool.
Once it is unregistered then you point out that well actually standard AR 15s are no different than all those harmless R 15s now being used to shoot gophers and shouldn't they be unrestricted too? Baby steps people.
As for the Inuit thing, well .223 is a very common caliber in the arctic, lets get some aboriginal hunting groups on board with our plan too.
Anyone care to add constructive thoughts? Please save the defeatest bull#### for another thread.
The Valmet M 78 is no different than any other AK (RPK) type weapon, yet is was made an exception to the AK classification. My thinking is that we try for a similar exception for the R 15.
Is this logical? No. Obviously an R15 is basically the same as any AR 15; however we are talking politics not logic. I feel that allowing the R 15 to be an unrestricted exception to the restricted status is basically a way for us to get an AR 15 we can hunt with while saving the politicians some face.
It is also a tactic in the same vien as those which our enemies use against us frequently. We should be asserting loudly that the R 15 is a very different beast than any other AR 15 and the rules are depriving us harmless Elmer Fudds from a perfectly good and safe tool.
Once it is unregistered then you point out that well actually standard AR 15s are no different than all those harmless R 15s now being used to shoot gophers and shouldn't they be unrestricted too? Baby steps people.
As for the Inuit thing, well .223 is a very common caliber in the arctic, lets get some aboriginal hunting groups on board with our plan too.
Anyone care to add constructive thoughts? Please save the defeatest bull#### for another thread.
skinnadoor
Regular
- Location
- BC, Canada
I just got off the phone with a dealer in Albta, and he's waiting for them to arrive. He said there is a hold up because they are still trying to hammer out if it's going to be Non-restricted or not. I did get a quote though, $1030.00 + Tax.
I'm hoping they will be non restricted..... i think it's time anyway for this to change, as do most of you.
Hope my info helped.
I'm hoping they will be non restricted..... i think it's time anyway for this to change, as do most of you.
Hope my info helped.
