Remington R15 vs HK SL8

I've got the r-15 in 204 ruger. I really like it but I'd really really like it if it wasn't restricted. Keep toying with the idea of trading it for something like the hk. There are used hk for around 2000 on the ee though. I'm not sure too many would be interested in mine because its not a 223.
 
The R15 is made by DPMS for Remington. It's a lower to mid level US built AR. Worth around $1000 so it makes a nice entry level AR if you don't want a Norinco or an NEA.
I own an SL8-4 (my second one) and it is definitely an under rated rifle. They are 100% reliable and will outshoot pretty much every other semi auto 223 out there other than high end AR's. The only AR I've shot that is comparable to the HK for accuracy is my 18 inch with an ATRS barrel. The AR will shoot tighter groups but it should considering the quality of the barrel I put on it. I got my HK used and the previous owner spent some money and swapped out the thumbhole stock for a HERA gen 2 lower with an ACR stock and it's amazing now. Smooth shooting and incredibly accurate for a semi auto. The HK easily shoots tighter groups than the Swiss Arms classic green target I used to own. Build quality is very high as well.

The only negative to the SL-8 is that you need an allen wrench to take it apart but it runs clean and can go thousands of rounds without cleaning if needed.

So yes, the HK is easily worth double what the R15 costs.
 
Decide what you want to do, and get the rifle that best suits. Because of the legal classification, they are hard to compare. If the legal classification is not an issue for you, the R15 is a better rifle IMO. Especially once you put the extra $ saved through it in ammo.

I have an R-15 in 223 that I have shot extensively both positionally, and prone. I have shot this rifle to 900m, and am really happy with it.
 
carbonrod said:
Decide what you want to do, and get the rifle that best suits. Because of the legal classification, they are hard to compare. If the legal classification is not an issue for you, the R15 is a better rifle IMO. Especially once you put the extra $ saved through it in ammo.

I have an R-15 in 223 that I have shot extensively both positionally, and prone. I have shot this rifle to 900m, and am really happy with it.
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In my opinion stock rifle to stock rifle the HK is far superior to the R15 but carbonrod is right about if you don't care about them being restricted or not the R15 is probably the one to go with, if you take the $1000 you save and buy a better barrel and a case of ammo you can do a lot of shooting and be just as accurate or even better. Build quality is not HK level but for a range toy it's not a big deal. I own 3 higher end AR's as well as my SL8 and none are as well built as the HK but they are all reliable and accurate enough to ring the gong at 300yds.

I think the HK is worth the extra money but not if all you do is go to the range and shoot 8 inch plates at 100yds
 
The sl8 is set up more like a dmr, it's got a fat barrel, it's free floate, and a heavy and chubby mofo. If you wanted a semi auto rifle with moa accuracy with right ammo, the sl8 is the way to go. Don't know how much the r15 is, but if 1k is right I would much rather recommend a core15 instead, their hardware is seemingly higher quality. Or for a bit more a stag or bcm will do good as well. Off the box I doubt any of them will match the sl8 for accuracy but for the dollar I doubt there is any semi auto rifle that can match it for accuracy out of the box. But you can tweak and fix that if you want. Depends what you want out of the rifle, while the sl8 is nr it would not be my first choice as a bush gun, it's too heavy. all depends on the role
 
I've had both, accuracy was about the same.
The r15 has better ergos and is much lighter. And has lots of options for upgrading accuracy, or improving ergonomics further.
The sl8 sucks in comparison, but is non restricted.
 
There are options for the HK but they are expensive. Mine is way more comfortable now that it has the HERA gen 2 lower and ACR stock but that added a lot of money to the package. Your looking at over $6000 including the Elcan Specter DR in the picture below. Doing up an HK costs a lot.

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The AR is definitely a better platform if you want to do a lot of mods and customize it.
 
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Gunnerlove said:
The r15 Will shoot sub moa with quality ammo. Parts and mags are cheap and every where. They are a bargain.
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That's pushing it a little, considering my SL8-4 and my 18 inch AR with ATRS barrel haven't shown me sub MOA after 7 different types of ammo I have a hard time believing a DPMS barrel will do it. I think with handloads it is possible and I'm expecting to see good things from my latest batch of testers but unless you got lucky and found the magic ammo that your barrel loves I doubt it's going to do sub MOA from the factory barrel.

To be fair I am only using a 1-4 power optic on my SL-8 and a 2-7 on my AR, they could probably both benefit from more magnification for accuracy shooting, and you may have a very nice scope on your R15.

You are definitely right that parts and mags are cheap and everywhere though.
 
The SL8 right now is over priced. If you can find one for a great deal then I would consider it as it is a nice firearm. The problem is it costs a lot to turn it into what it should be out of the box. Once you dump the thumbhole stock it's much better.

Negatives are: Cost, the stock, the raised optics rail doesn't really do it for me and the takedown.
Plus: HK so well built, I like the varmint barrel and the ergos.

My Swiss Arms black target shoots as well as the HK but the thicker barrel of the HK is an advantage for DM style shooting as the barel doesn't heat up as fast. The main issue is the PE90 comes complete as a civilian version of a military rifle. By the time you add folding stocks etc to the HK you're at more than the Swiss arms.

Let's be honest here. If the AR was non restricted this wouldn't even be a discussion. A $700 Norinco M4 with free float handguard and trigger work will shoot with the HK, PE90 etc. For $1500 these days you can get an AR that will accuracy wise put the rest of these options to shame.
 
Epoxy7 said:
The SL8 right now is over priced. If you can find one for a great deal then I would consider it as it is a nice firearm. The problem is it costs a lot to turn it into what it should be out of the box. Once you dump the thumbhole stock it's much better.

Negatives are: Cost, the stock, the raised optics rail doesn't really do it for me and the takedown.
Plus: HK so well built, I like the varmint barrel and the ergos.

My Swiss Arms black target shoots as well as the HK but the thicker barrel of the HK is an advantage for DM style shooting as the barel doesn't heat up as fast. The main issue is the PE90 comes complete as a civilian version of a military rifle. By the time you add folding stocks etc to the HK you're at more than the Swiss arms.

Let's be honest here. If the AR was non restricted this wouldn't even be a discussion. A $700 Norinco M4 with free float handguard and trigger work will shoot with the HK, PE90 etc. For $1500 these days you can get an AR that will accuracy wise put the rest of these options to shame.
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My classic green target wouldn't shoot anywhere near as well as my HK. To be fair I only shot 55gr American Eagle from my Swiss but I did have a Bushnell Elite 6500 2.5-16 scope on it. My SL8-4 with the Elcan Specter DR is shooting the AE 55g into groups half the size at 100yds and it does much better with 55gr V-max and 50gr Silvertips. I'm sure the Swiss could have done better if I had done some experimenting but the thing I hated most about my Swiss was the poi shift going from the bi-pod to supporting it on the mag or just in front of the magwell. Mine had 5moa shift when switching and that was not acceptable to me.
Your right though, if the AR was not restricted it wouldn't matter because we would all have a rifle for $1000-$2000 that shot just as well or better than any of the non restricted black options we have now.

Take down of the HK is a pain in the ass to a point but I don't see it as a negative. I don't see the need to be able to strip a civilian rifle tool-less especially since the G36 which is the same operating system is supposed to be able to run something like 20000 rounds without cleaning. I don't think anyone is going to run enough ammo through one of these that they need to take it apart in the field during a day or two of shooting.
The only real negatives I see in the HK is the price to upgrade it and the weight. But it isn't really that much heavier than any other 18-20 inch heavy barrel piston rifle out there now.
 
cr5 said:
My classic green target wouldn't shoot anywhere near as well as my HK. To be fair I only shot 55gr American Eagle from my Swiss but I did have a Bushnell Elite 6500 2.5-16 scope on it. My SL8-4 with the Elcan Specter DR is shooting the AE 55g into groups half the size at 100yds and it does much better with 55gr V-max and 50gr Silvertips. I'm sure the Swiss could have done better if I had done some experimenting but the thing I hated most about my Swiss was the poi shift going from the bi-pod to supporting it on the mag or just in front of the magwell. Mine had 5moa shift when switching and that was not acceptable to me.
Your right though, if the AR was not restricted it wouldn't matter because we would all have a rifle for $1000-$2000 that shot just as well or better than any of the non restricted black options we have now.

Take down of the HK is a pain in the ass to a point but I don't see it as a negative. I don't see the need to be able to strip a civilian rifle tool-less especially since the G36 which is the same operating system is supposed to be able to run something like 20000 rounds without cleaning. I don't think anyone is going to run enough ammo through one of these that they need to take it apart in the field during a day or two of shooting.
The only real negatives I see in the HK is the price to upgrade it and the weight. But it isn't really that much heavier than any other 18-20 inch heavy barrel piston rifle out there now.
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The modifications on your sl8 does not necessarily improve the rifles actual accuracy does it? I mean the ergos and all that fun stuff is now more suited to you. But it should shoot just as well with the standard stock, no? I tried one recently at csc, the trigger is not bad and I honestly dont mind the thumbhole stock. And I have seen reports of them going 1 moa or slightly better with good ammo. Let's be honest a semi auto sapr? Current prices at some places are 2100-2300, I don't think anything out of the box at that price point that's non res can match that level of accuracy. Now whether that accuracy is a part of the role you want out of the rifle is a different story.
 
ztunelover said:
The modifications on your sl8 does not necessarily improve the rifles actual accuracy does it? I mean the ergos and all that fun stuff is now more suited to you. But it should shoot just as well with the standard stock, no? I tried one recently at csc, the trigger is not bad and I honestly dont mind the thumbhole stock. And I have seen reports of them going 1 moa or slightly better with good ammo. Let's be honest a semi auto sapr? Current prices at some places are 2100-2300, I don't think anything out of the box at that price point that's non res can match that level of accuracy. Now whether that accuracy is a part of the role you want out of the rifle is a different story.
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I'm not sure what your trying to say since you didn't actually say how it shot when you tried one recently or if you even liked it. Only that you didn't mind the thumbhole.

So,
No, the mods don't make it shoot any more accurately, what they do is make it more comfortable for the average person as most of the complaints about it are the thumbhole stock doesn't fit everyone.
Yes, should shoot just as well as a stock one which is very well with most ammo and really well with a few select types and better when you spend some time developing a handload for it. Mine is doing just a tiny bit over MOA with a couple factory loads and my handloads. I'm hoping for better out of my latest batch of test loads.
SAPR? No. A sporting rifle that shares many of the same characteristics and is a civilian less scary looking version of the G36? Yes.
Agree'd, average retail for new is $2200-$2300, used are a couple hundred less.
Is that accuracy a part of the role I want? I think most people want their rifle to be as accurate as possible at any price point.
Judging by the whining on this site about how every rifle out there people buy in the $2000 or higher price range that should somehow automatically be a sub MOA rifle I think I'm right about most people wanting the most accurate rifle available regardless of it's role.

Out of the box I don't think there is anything non restricted that can touch the SL-8 for accuracy. If you throw AR's into the mix then it takes a higher end AR with a quality barrel to match it. Spend $2000 on an AR and you will easily shoot just as well as the HK, maybe better. Either way, it takes quality ammo and a good shooter to see the difference. It really comes down to what a person wants and how much they are willing to spend to get there.

Don't get me wrong, I love my AR's and will own at least one of them (currently have 3) until the government takes them from me but for a non restricted so far from all the black rifles I've owned or shot the HK is the best option out there in my opinion. For me it takes a few mods to make it the way I want it. My next rifle is going to be an ACR and then get a non restricted barrel and have it reclassified. I'll be keeping whichever one I like better.
 
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cr5 said:
I'm not sure what your trying to say since you didn't actually say how it shot when you tried one recently or if you even liked it. Only that you didn't mind the thumbhole.

So,
No, the mods don't make it shoot any more accurately, what they do is make it more comfortable for the average person as most of the complaints about it are the thumbhole stock doesn't fit everyone.
Yes, should shoot just as well as a stock one which is very well with most ammo and really well with a few select types and better when you spend some time developing a handload for it. Mine is doing just a tiny bit over MOA with a couple factory loads and my handloads. I'm hoping for better out of my latest batch of test loads.
SAPR? No. A sporting rifle that shares many of the same characteristics and is a civilian less scary looking version of the G36? Yes.
Agree'd, average retail for new is $2200-$2300, used are a couple hundred less.
Is that accuracy a part of the role I want? I think most people want their rifle to be as accurate as possible at any price point.
Judging by the whining on this site about how every rifle out there people buy in the $2000 or higher price range that should somehow automatically be a sub MOA rifle I think I'm right about most people wanting the most accurate rifle available regardless of it's role.

Out of the box I don't think there is anything non restricted that can touch the SL-8 for accuracy. If you throw AR's into the mix then it takes a higher end AR with a quality barrel to match it. Spend $2000 on an AR and you will easily shoot just as well as the HK, maybe better. Either way, it takes quality ammo and a good shooter to see the difference. It really comes down to what a person wants and how much they are willing to spend to get there.
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Just verify that the mods done did not affect performance, you confirmed my suspicioun that the sl8 is dollar for dollar the most accurate non res out of the box at that price point. Like you said the role dictates the hardware.
 
ztunelover said:
Just verify that the mods done did not affect performance, you confirmed my suspicioun that the sl8 is dollar for dollar the most accurate non res out of the box at that price point. Like you said the role dictates the hardware.
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I find it much more comfortable and think it looks a lot better with the mods. I don't think I would have spent the money for all the parts if I had bought it in stock condition but I'm glad the deal I found came by. This was a straight across trade for my Swiss classic green target which didn't live up to my expectations in the accuracy department. It was a beautifully built rifle but it didn't like the ammo I primarily use so it had to go. The pending reclassification was the final straw for it and sealed the deal.
 
For around the same price as an R-15, you can get a, imo, better AR from Wyndham Weaponry or Armalite.
 
The PE90 that most of us have are the 1:10 twist version. Newest ones have a 1:7 twist.

The 1:10 was designed for 63grain Ruag 5.56. Mine had an exceptional test target and I have a Zeiss conquest 6.5-20x on it. I did get 1 moa at 100 yards for 5 rounds using 62grain American Eagle red box. Mine shot 55 grain 223 poorly. I haven't tried 5.56 yet. But 62 grain seems good.

I debated between the HK and PE90. After doing the pros/cons I chose the PE90. I prefer it over all. But I do like the HK as well.
 
Epoxy7 said:
The PE90 that most of us have are the 1:10 twist version. Newest ones have a 1:7 twist.

The 1:10 was designed for 63grain Ruag 5.56. Mine had an exceptional test target and I have a Zeiss conquest 6.5-20x on it. I did get 1 moa at 100 yards for 5 rounds using 62grain American Eagle red box. Mine shot 55 grain 223 poorly. I haven't tried 5.56 yet. But 62 grain seems good.

I debated between the HK and PE90. After doing the pros/cons I chose the PE90. I prefer it over all. But I do like the HK as well.
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My Swiss had a 1:7 barrel, I wish I had tried some other ammo in it but once I found the poi shift which was about 5 inch at 100yds if I went from bipod to supporting it just in front of the magwell I lost interest in shooting it for accuracy. It did have the smoothest action of any semi auto I've cycled though, it was built very well and the machining was so smooth and everything fit perfectly. It felt like it was running on needle bearings when you cycled the action.
The SL8 doesn't feel as smooth when you cycle it but it shoots very smoothly and is very consistent, When I shoot groups I don't give any time for cool down and I just fire again as soon as I can get a steady sight picture. I don't let it get really hot but there is no break between rounds or mags till it feels hot to the touch. I'm also going to do some glass swapping before my next trip out so I have more magnification for testing. Once I find my load I'll probably switch back to the Specter.
 
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