Remington Rand 1911 Value??
- Thread starter jimmyjazz
- Start date
What is the S/N minus the last two digits (x them out ).
It has a type 2 slide marking, if the slide is original to the frame the S/N should in the same time period.
Some of you may know more than me but it should have a serrated slide stop,
flat-sided checkered hammer, checkered safety and mag release. It has the correct Keyes grips( ring around the screws ).
It also should have a ribbed mainspring housing with eight ribs.
If all correct it would be worth $2500 us in the states( if you could get it there ) maybe $1000 in Canada. Due to the U.S. property stamp it can't be reimported to the states.
It has a type 2 slide marking, if the slide is original to the frame the S/N should in the same time period.
Some of you may know more than me but it should have a serrated slide stop,
flat-sided checkered hammer, checkered safety and mag release. It has the correct Keyes grips( ring around the screws ).
It also should have a ribbed mainspring housing with eight ribs.
If all correct it would be worth $2500 us in the states( if you could get it there ) maybe $1000 in Canada. Due to the U.S. property stamp it can't be reimported to the states.
If it had the "United States Property" and "M 1911A1 US Army" stamps on the right side of the frame, above where the serial number is stamped it would be a $1,000-$1,200 pistol in Canada if the serial number of the frame is in the designated Remington Rand serial number range. If it's an Ithaca mfg frame, then it's a "mixmaster" and maybe $750-$850 range.
Since the US property and M 1911A1 US Army markings look to have been removed, likely in the past to obliterate the pistol's origins, it would also suggest that the frame has been refinished at some point. In the absence of authentic arsenal rebuild stamps [i.e. "AA" for Augusta Arsenal; "SA" for Springfield Arsenal, etc] on the refinish indicates that it was not done by the US military. That further detracts from the pistol's "correctness" in terms of collectibility.
Your frame should have the "FJA" inspector stamp like this:
http://www.coolgunsite.com/images/1911/1943%20rr%2098###/1943_r13.jpg
And the "US property" and "M 1911A1 US Army" stamp like this:
http://www.coolgunsite.com/images/1911/1943%20rr%2098###/1943_r11.jpg
I would say in it's present condition, although a nice and somewhat representative WWII era 1911A1 GI pistol, it is in the "shooter" category, as opposed to "collector". I would give it $750 - $850, and only because it is in otherwise nice condition overall.
My .02............
NAA.
Since the US property and M 1911A1 US Army markings look to have been removed, likely in the past to obliterate the pistol's origins, it would also suggest that the frame has been refinished at some point. In the absence of authentic arsenal rebuild stamps [i.e. "AA" for Augusta Arsenal; "SA" for Springfield Arsenal, etc] on the refinish indicates that it was not done by the US military. That further detracts from the pistol's "correctness" in terms of collectibility.
Your frame should have the "FJA" inspector stamp like this:
http://www.coolgunsite.com/images/1911/1943%20rr%2098###/1943_r13.jpg
And the "US property" and "M 1911A1 US Army" stamp like this:
http://www.coolgunsite.com/images/1911/1943%20rr%2098###/1943_r11.jpg
I would say in it's present condition, although a nice and somewhat representative WWII era 1911A1 GI pistol, it is in the "shooter" category, as opposed to "collector". I would give it $750 - $850, and only because it is in otherwise nice condition overall.
My .02............
NAA.
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It doesn't appear to have the "US property" stamp....
But I agree, being an ex-US military piece it can no longer be legally reimported back into the USA.
NAA.
Sorry, didn't look at the photos closely. It isn't marked U.S.
No FJA stamp, no crossed cannons or small P's.
Major brain fart on my part.
If the gun was arsenal refinished these markings might be faint but would still be visible.
Nice shooter though if the bore was any good.
Even without U.S. markings I'm told the BATF gets upset about the no serial number thing.
No FJA stamp, no crossed cannons or small P's.
Major brain fart on my part.
If the gun was arsenal refinished these markings might be faint but would still be visible.
Nice shooter though if the bore was any good.
Even without U.S. markings I'm told the BATF gets upset about the no serial number thing.
Thanks for the input.
SN-9570XX
I am finding it hard to see any remnants of any markings or proof marks including "United States Property" and "M 1911A1 US Army"
Left side of slide only "Remington Rand Inc - Syracuse, N.Y. U.S.A."
Right side frame only serial number, even that the font all appears different.
digits 1;2 and 4 are same size, digit 3 a bit bigger and digit 5; 6 are a bit smaller and shallower than the rest ?
SN-9570XX
I am finding it hard to see any remnants of any markings or proof marks including "United States Property" and "M 1911A1 US Army"
Left side of slide only "Remington Rand Inc - Syracuse, N.Y. U.S.A."
Right side frame only serial number, even that the font all appears different.
digits 1;2 and 4 are same size, digit 3 a bit bigger and digit 5; 6 are a bit smaller and shallower than the rest ?
Might be the original serial number that got worn & someone tried to restamp or someone obliterated the original serial number when the other markings were removed from the frame and stamped a new number on it.
If it is the original number 957,### then it would be in the 1942-1943 mfg Remington Rand serial number range if the frame had the "FJA" inspector stamp or it could be in the 1943 mfg Colt serial number range if it had a ""GHD" inspector stamp [there was an overlap of 1911A1 USGI maker serial numbers in this range/period].
Would have to see how the numbers are stamped to determine what is original or not.
You can also check out this site: http://www.coolgunsite.com/
On the toolbar on the left on the home page of the website, check out the ID pages and also the 1911 gallery for how correct 1911A1's from the era are marked/proofed etc. Lots of good info there.
NAA.
If it is the original number 957,### then it would be in the 1942-1943 mfg Remington Rand serial number range if the frame had the "FJA" inspector stamp or it could be in the 1943 mfg Colt serial number range if it had a ""GHD" inspector stamp [there was an overlap of 1911A1 USGI maker serial numbers in this range/period].
Would have to see how the numbers are stamped to determine what is original or not.
You can also check out this site: http://www.coolgunsite.com/
On the toolbar on the left on the home page of the website, check out the ID pages and also the 1911 gallery for how correct 1911A1's from the era are marked/proofed etc. Lots of good info there.
NAA.
If the frame is indeed an M1911A1 the frame has been well refinished. The Serial number sounds suspect from your description. The lack of inspection marks points to (as has been said) some private refinishing, possibly in an attempt to hide the pistol's origins. Value would likely vary widely depending on the buyers perception. Anywhere from $500-700.
You can get a lot of really good info on the m1911.org forums as well.
You can get a lot of really good info on the m1911.org forums as well.
Possible only if it was something like a "lunch box frame" [i.e. taken from assembly line before it could be proofed and properly marked] then assembled later with other parts similarly obtained.
Take the slide off the frame and look down at the flat area where the disconnector pokes through and forward of that into the front dust cover area.... see if there are any assembler's marks/stamps/numbers/letters in that area. Might help point to the frame's maker.
Look in this area [this is a Rem Rand 970,###]:
NAA.
After a closer inspection and disassembly I have found a Capitol "P" on the top of the slide in front of the rear sight.
And on the frame just in front of the hammer an Oval w/ the letters "RA" and a Capitol "G" just in front of that.
And on the frame just in front of the hammer an Oval w/ the letters "RA" and a Capitol "G" just in front of that.
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It mat be hard to determine who actually made the frame since its markings have been altered.The frame may well be a government 1911; the RA looks like it may be the stamp for Raritan Arsenal in NJ making it an armoury rebuild.
Hard to tell from your first photo , is the top if the slide stop serrated or chequered? Mainspring housing serrated or chequered?
Hard to tell from your first photo , is the top if the slide stop serrated or chequered? Mainspring housing serrated or chequered?
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Could it be one of the 1911/1911A1's Joe Salter brought in around 1990-91 in big boxes on pallets? A few dealers were selling them in the Gunrunner Newspaper as I recall.
The pistols were used in the Bay of Pigs Invasion (CUBA) in 1961.
They came in from East Germany wrapped in Cuban Newsprint. Some were filed on the side with no markings, some had chrome or nickel parts, some had all nickel plating.
Many ended up get reblued, reparked, etc here in Canada by the new owners.
They are pretty cool when you think about it, lots of history there: WW1, WW2, Cuba, Communist East Germany, Back to North America.
The pistols were used in the Bay of Pigs Invasion (CUBA) in 1961.
They came in from East Germany wrapped in Cuban Newsprint. Some were filed on the side with no markings, some had chrome or nickel parts, some had all nickel plating.
Many ended up get reblued, reparked, etc here in Canada by the new owners.
They are pretty cool when you think about it, lots of history there: WW1, WW2, Cuba, Communist East Germany, Back to North America.
"P" on the slide is correct, there should be a matching one on the left side of the frame about 4 oclock to the mag release button.
"G" indicates the frame was made to fulfil a government contract. The "RA" may be an indicator of an arsenal rebuild but usually you see them on the side of the frame, forward of the trigger guard bow.
NAA.
Lever Arms in Vancouver, B.C. had a few crates of these circa 1990. Condition went from down right nice to real dogs. Here's one of the "beater" 1911's I got out of there for $99:
Note, virtually all markings/proofs etc were obliterated.
After pic of same pistol refinished:
NAA.
Lever Arms in Vancouver, B.C. had a few crates of these circa 1990. Condition went from down right nice to real dogs. Here's one of the "beater" 1911's I got out of there for $99:
Note, virtually all markings/proofs etc were obliterated.
After pic of same pistol refinished:
NAA.
See now that is what I had in mind for this when I purchased it.... but a friend of mine is selling me his that is already done.
I will be listing it today.
Cheers,
Gian
New Info.....
I have to admit that the "RA" in the oval got me curious, as personally I had never seen it before. And the lack of the "US property" and "M 1911A1 US Army" script, yet the finish so even in those areas.
So, after some further research I found out that the RA in the oval mark is actually an Argentine military inspector's mark. [Reference is: Colt .45 Government Models (Commercial Series), by Charles Clawson, page 140]. Some Colt mfg commercial pistols were purchased by the Argentine government for it's military in 1927-28 and bear this mark. The resource states to check under the left grip for a Colt "view proof" [small V & P in triangle] and also a second stamping of the original serial number on the frame under the mainspring housing. [Should be 1 - 10,000]. This would likely explain the lack of the "US property" and "M 1911A1 US Army" script and other USGI inspector stamps & proofs on the frame, as the Argentine contract was filled with Colt mfg commercial frames.
If this information is correct then this pistol was made up using a Colt mfg commercial frame made for the Argentine military, a Type II Remington Rand USGI military contract slide and misc small parts.
NAA.
After a closer inspection and disassembly I have found a Capitol "P" on the top of the slide in front of the rear sight.
And on the frame just in front of the hammer an Oval w/ the letters "RA" and a Capitol "G" just in front of that.
I have to admit that the "RA" in the oval got me curious, as personally I had never seen it before. And the lack of the "US property" and "M 1911A1 US Army" script, yet the finish so even in those areas.
So, after some further research I found out that the RA in the oval mark is actually an Argentine military inspector's mark. [Reference is: Colt .45 Government Models (Commercial Series), by Charles Clawson, page 140]. Some Colt mfg commercial pistols were purchased by the Argentine government for it's military in 1927-28 and bear this mark. The resource states to check under the left grip for a Colt "view proof" [small V & P in triangle] and also a second stamping of the original serial number on the frame under the mainspring housing. [Should be 1 - 10,000]. This would likely explain the lack of the "US property" and "M 1911A1 US Army" script and other USGI inspector stamps & proofs on the frame, as the Argentine contract was filled with Colt mfg commercial frames.
If this information is correct then this pistol was made up using a Colt mfg commercial frame made for the Argentine military, a Type II Remington Rand USGI military contract slide and misc small parts.
NAA.
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