Remington safety malfunction?

Quigly said:
I just resolved that issue, on mine, by replacing the trigger with a Trigger Tech. More often than not, the issue is with people trying to get the lightest trigger, with the least amount of creep, resulting in unintentional discharges. That was the issue with mine. The previous owner had messed with the trigger. Instead of wondering if I had solved the problem by messing with the trigger, I dropped in a new trigger, and it only took minutes. Now the trigger pull os light, and crisp, and does not discharge when it has a mind to.
Click to expand...

Good Job ! Because people have no idea how to fix the REM trigger A replacement is BEST & SAFEST ! RJ
 
The way Remington handled the unsafe safety and trigger system made me put them on a list of gun manufacturers that I will never buy from. Even though there is a fix, I'm still not buying from them. They knew of the problem, and continued to sell them without a fix. To give an example of doing it correctly, CZ recalled the entire 600 lineup when a single issue with barrel seating was discovered.
 
guntech said:
It takes a skilled smith less time than that to "fix" a 700 trigger... for a fraction of the cost of an after market trigger... I used to do them for $30-$40. Crisp, light, and safe.

There must be guys out there doing them...?
Click to expand...

What's the fix?

Also what do you think of the video in post 36?
 
Ribstaylor said:
The way Remington handled the unsafe safety and trigger system made me put them on a list of gun manufacturers that I will never buy from. Even though there is a fix, I'm still not buying from them. They knew of the problem, and continued to sell them without a fix. To give an example of doing it correctly, CZ recalled the entire 600 lineup when a single issue with barrel seating was discovered.
Click to expand...

Yup ! Just like CAR manufacturers ! Always phucking people over . RJ
 
TrxR said:
What's the fix?

Also what do you think of the video in post 36?
Click to expand...

It'a a good fix. I have an older Remington that has always been kept clean, inside and out and even though it's never malfunctioned, I did that same fix when I first heard they were having issues.

That little hardened face is stamped first, then hardened later with heat treatment. That's why the video doesn't mention silver soldering or even soft soldering in place. It's way to easy to heat red hot and lose that hardness.

A good epoxy with the screw filler and the tip filed off the adjustment screw works perfectly.

That hardened piece of stamped metal fits very nicely on the trigger in the video, as does the one on my rifle. Not all of them fit that snugly and I've seen several that were very close to the point of becoming dangerous because they were never taken out of their stocks for a proper cleaning, even if the shooter had enough on the ball to realize why it needs to be done.

One of the worst I've seen was brought to me by a fellow who had bought it as his first hunting rifle, from a local gunshop, over 40 years ago.

It was a very nice Rem 700 ADL, in a plain stock without frills and straight grain.

He really didn't know how to properly clean, take down and care for his rifle, but did the best he could with limited knowledge.

He had a bottle of "gun oil" and that was used for everything from cleaning to the preservation of the finish whenever it got snowed or rained on, then back into the original and now ratty, plastic/canvas rifle case and then relegated to the closet until next fall.

The only reason he brought it to me was to have the trigger adjusted lighter. It was brutal, close to 8 pounds, and very gritty.

He was surprised that I had to pull the barreled action out of the stock to adjust it lighter.

When the stock was pulled off, not easily as I first thought, because the stock screws had never been loosened but maybe tightened a few times and were very difficult to start turning out. There was a bit of rust but that wasn't the issue, just overtightened and metal-to-metal binding (friction weld).

Not a good sign of what was to come.

The whole trigger mechanism, beneath the wood, was covered in a fine coat of dust, grit, and LINT from he gun case.

When I took the trigger assembly apart, there was a layer of the same dust and grit/lint, all soaked in oil beneath that hardened, stamped sear piece.

The only thing that saved this particular shooter from having a nonintentional let-off, was the overtravel screw had never been touched after it left the factory and jammed in place.

Cleaned it up and fixed it very similarly to the video fix and it works just fine.

I cleaned up as much of the oil soaked into the stock as I could but it didn't do much. The real reason the rifle was brought in was it was no longer grouping acceptably for its owner.

The bore hadn't had the jacket or powder fouling cleaned since new. It had an oily rag wiped through the bore with one of those cheapy aluminum rod type kits in a red tin and that was it.

Considering the rifle hadn't seen more than a half dozen shots per year, it could have been a lot worse. What was unique, was that it still wore the original factory iron sights and a scope had never been mounted.

The bad grouping could easily have been the aging eyes of the owner as well as the slop in the oil-soaked stock.

That rifle now wears a different stock I had in my used, but still good bin, and it's been glass-bedded to fit snugly. The trigger was set to 3.5-4 pounds and a scope was mounted.

The owner is happy, his son is happy as he uses it as well. They take that rifle apart at the end of every season, meticulously clean it properly and apply just enough oil to protect the bore. For the rest of the rifle, they apply a coat of Sheath a few times per year.

They're also shooting it more often. Maybe the scope helps??? A box or two/year. They use Wipe Out and follow the instructions.

I have to agree with Dan40X, fixing the Walker trigger isn't difficult and every bit as good a fix as a trigger replacement from the factory IMHO.

Still, the best fix is the one the shooter feels the best about, so if replacing that trigger, instead of fixing it properly, works for you, by all means, do so.
 
bearhunter said:
It'a a good fix. I have an older Remington that has always been kept clean, inside and out and even though it's never malfunctioned, I did that same fix when I first heard they were having issues.
That little hardened face is stamped first, then hardened later with heat treatment. That's why the video doesn't mention silver soldering or even soft soldering in place. It's way to easy to heat red hot and lose that hardness.
A good epoxy with the screw filler and the tip filed off the adjustment screw works perfectly.
That hardened piece of stamped metal fits very nicely on the trigger in the video, as does the one on my rifle. Not all of them fit that snugly and I've seen several that were very close to the point of becoming dangerous because they were never taken out of their stocks for a proper cleaning, even if the shooter had enough on the ball to realize why it needs to be done.



Einstein-
Why does the connector FLOAT in the Remington trigger design?

Permanently attaching the connector to the trigger lever induces what action?
Click to expand...
 
TrxR said:
What's the fix?

Also what do you think of the video in post 36?
Click to expand...

The fix in most cases is simply cleaning the trigger, very lightly polishing the contacting sears with a soft 400 grit wheel, then very lightly with a ' 550 black wheel', assembling and adjusting to a safe crisp 2.5 to 3 pounds for most hunters.

I have not watched that video.
 
The connector piece is a blanked part & progressive formed into it's channel shape.

IF,one see's past the tip of one's nose.

The punch(sharp edge) is formed to the inside of the connector.
The die break(sheared edge) is to the outside of the connector.
The forming/bending operation forms a bend bulge that is ground off to prevent binding in the trigger housing.
Of the thousands of Remington triggers that I've had in hand,I have NEVER witnessed a connector that was formed w/ the punch surface formed to the outside of the part....not ONE.

IF,the connector was designed to be permanently attached to the trigger lever...why didn't Rem induction solder or silver braze the pieces together?
(gluing any firearm part is a BUBBA bastardization) PERIOD.

To be smarter than the equipment that one is attempting to operate-
Grind/draft the aft edge (material thickness) of the connector to acquire a clean stoned top corner surface.
Stone the top surface of the connector to eliminate any back bend/bulge from the forming operation(reduce striker drag)

bearhunter-
Once again...monkey see, monkey do is NOT the fix/cure.

Some idiot posted on the interweb that the connector was supposed to squirt out of position like pinching a pumplkin seed between your thumb & index finger-TOTOL IDIOT.

The connector piece floats because IF it was/is glued,screwed,soldered,brazed to the trigger lever repeatability & functionality is seriously defeated.
IF,the trigger lever w/an affixed connector is/was shimmed to eliminate side to side slop repeatability may be acceptable.(not w/my experiments ,decades ago)

A 2 lug Remington is #### on Open.
A 2 lug Remington is #### on Close.
Not being of military rifle design w/ square ground striker/sear engagement surfaces.
Remington striker & sear angles are 45degrees.
A Remington upon pushing the bolt forward to rotate the bolt into Battery the #### on close "STRIKER to SEAR Hand Off Engagement" transfer happens.
Depending on vintage,#### on Close varies from .040" to .080"
Cycling said bolt into Battery,you have a 26Lb firing pin mainspring attempting to override a mechanically disadvantaged sear spring(45deg surfaces not square ground)

Cycling a Remington bolt softly & gingerly, compared to cycling a Remington bolt like it owes you money, will change trigger pull....drastically & possibly dangerously.

Anyone that attempts to adjust an OEM Remington trigger group-
IF there is backlash or creep between the trigger lever & connector, it is adjusted improperly.

Once ALL aspects are addressed-
A Remington 2 lug bolt is easily cycled w/ 2 fingers.
A Remington design trigger is repeatable to 4 oz.w/+ .010" STRIKER to SEAR Hand Off.

Remington 2oz single shot trigger groups & Remington International trigger groups are a modified M.Walker trigger group that operate TOTALLY different than a 700/40X Repeater trigger group.
 
Detailed Instr for FIX

Good vid for the 'repair' of the 700 trigger assy. I've got a more detailed written description of the 'fix' done by H.J. Belk back in 2010. I found this a few years ago, when I got a 1960 Rem 722 with that trigger. Mine 'hasn't AD-ed' so I haven't tried to do this sort of mod.
https://www.700rifle.com/threads/remington-walker-trigger-explanation.19289/#post-68787
If you go to the link in Post #4 there is a pdf of this 'fix' on Academia.edu that can be downloaded - this one has pics to go with instructions. And goes into great detail, too.
 
DANS40X said:
The connector piece is a blanked part & progressive formed into it's channel shape.

IF,one see's past the tip of one's nose.

The punch(sharp edge) is formed to the inside of the connector.
The die break(sheared edge) is to the outside of the connector.
The forming/bending operation forms a bend bulge that is ground off to prevent binding in the trigger housing.
Of the thousands of Remington triggers that I've had in hand,I have NEVER witnessed a connector that was formed w/ the punch surface formed to the outside of the part....not ONE.

IF,the connector was designed to be permanently attached to the trigger lever...why didn't Rem induction solder or silver braze the pieces together?
(gluing any firearm part is a BUBBA bastardization) PERIOD.

To be smarter than the equipment that one is attempting to operate-
Grind/draft the aft edge (material thickness) of the connector to acquire a clean stoned top corner surface.
Stone the top surface of the connector to eliminate any back bend/bulge from the forming operation(reduce striker drag)

bearhunter-
Once again...monkey see, monkey do is NOT the fix/cure.

Some idiot posted on the interweb that the connector was supposed to squirt out of position like pinching a pumplkin seed between your thumb & index finger-TOTOL IDIOT.

The connector piece floats because IF it was/is glued,screwed,soldered,brazed to the trigger lever repeatability & functionality is seriously defeated.
IF,the trigger lever w/an affixed connector is/was shimmed to eliminate side to side slop repeatability may be acceptable.(not w/my experiments ,decades ago)

A 2 lug Remington is #### on Open.
A 2 lug Remington is #### on Close.
Not being of military rifle design w/ square ground striker/sear engagement surfaces.
Remington striker & sear angles are 45degrees.
A Remington upon pushing the bolt forward to rotate the bolt into Battery the #### on close "STRIKER to SEAR Hand Off Engagement" transfer happens.
Depending on vintage,#### on Close varies from .040" to .080"
Cycling said bolt into Battery,you have a 26Lb firing pin mainspring attempting to override a mechanically disadvantaged sear spring(45deg surfaces not square ground)

Cycling a Remington bolt softly & gingerly, compared to cycling a Remington bolt like it owes you money, will change trigger pull....drastically & possibly dangerously.

Anyone that attempts to adjust an OEM Remington trigger group-
IF there is backlash or creep between the trigger lever & connector, it is adjusted improperly.

Once ALL aspects are addressed-
A Remington 2 lug bolt is easily cycled w/ 2 fingers.
A Remington design trigger is repeatable to 4 oz.w/+ .010" STRIKER to SEAR Hand Off.

Remington 2oz single shot trigger groups & Remington International trigger groups are a modified M.Walker trigger group that operate TOTALLY different than a 700/40X Repeater trigger group.
Click to expand...

Dan, am I understanding you to say that, after timing is fully taken care of, you are able to get a "walker" trigger safely down to 4oz?
 
Jonnyofalltrades said:
Dan, am I understanding you to say that, after timing is fully taken care of, you are able to get a "walker" trigger safely down to 4oz?
Click to expand...

Yes.
Striker to Sear hand-off was set to +.005"
The only aftermarket part that was substituted was a LH helical/CCWise wound pull weight spring.
Once verified, the trigger group & striker/cocking piece was bagged/tagged & stored for safe keeping.
(above & beyond the abilities/knowledge of J.Belk, the so called expert of M.Walker trigger groups)
(J.Belk, an INCOMPETENT looking for a lucrative pay day)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom