If you have to look at the position of the safety to determine the condition of your firearm, you need more training, practice or both.
TDC
Remmie vs. Mossie
- Thread starter cyclone
- Start date
If you have to look at the position of the safety to determine the condition of your firearm, you need more training, practice or both.
TDC
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The Remington 870 only has a single EXTRACTOR IIRC.
Here is a cop of the instruction manual and diagrams in case you have lost yours.
Also, though the Mossberg has two extractors, but it will not eject if one is damaged. This is not good IMHO, as it adds a extra part to break and cause a problem.
Here is a link to an excellent discussion about shotguns EXCEPT the author did not go and shoot them both and run a couple thousand shells side by side out of them.
Those that have done so continue time and again to use Remington 870's
h ttp://members.tripod.com/~jth8260/870.html
Also, you MUST consider the differences between the Express, Wingmaster, and Police models, as when comparing the different brands you have to consider the models too. There a significant differences between the 870 models.
There are some metallurgical and manufacturing differences between the two brands that will add up to long-term durability differences, but 90% of users will never shoot them enough for that to play out.
They? For what? On a square range or at a match?
You might show clear... Sure.
But if you are a cop, you can't visually check your safety if you are operating at night can you?
It is drills and practice make the muscle memory automatic. Like musicians not looking at their hands while playing. If you are looking, that is good to double check, safer, sure.... But if you HAVE to look, maybe you could practice more.
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
If you've ever had to pry a spent round out of a chamber because the single extractor jump the rim,you would appreciate dual extractors my friend,
why wouldn't one work if the other one is broken? Although I'm sure their suppose work together and are not intended to act as a back up by any means.
And again,Mossbergs pass a Milspec test of 3000 rounds of FULL-POWER buckshot with out any breakage or failures. And were the only one to do it.
why wouldn't one work if the other one is broken? Although I'm sure their suppose work together and are not intended to act as a back up by any means.
And again,Mossbergs pass a Milspec test of 3000 rounds of FULL-POWER buckshot with out any breakage or failures. And were the only one to do it.
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Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You don't have to look,you can do it by feel,and mostly you will,but it right there if you feel the need to check it visual.
And I do need more training,Oh'boy do I need more training.
I've owned 2 Mossberg's & got rid of them because of quality control problems. (the action on both was very stiff. + the safety engaging itself from recoil on one of them...)
I've currently got 2 Rem 870 Police magnums that have very smooth action & have performed flawlessly. They are the cats ass!!!
I've currently got 2 Rem 870 Police magnums that have very smooth action & have performed flawlessly. They are the cats ass!!!
Was that the test for the Marines and a new breaching SG for urban ops?
Those tests are notoriously skewed. Look at how the Navy DEVGRU and SFG Alpha/Delta guys all wanted the new HK416 (IIRC) and it was the only one that passed a test, but some loudmouths and some congressman raised a fuss made them use US built or something and are still "issued" the M4's etc. Of course, they are creative and still have the 416's stashed I hear.
"Although I'm sure their suppose work together and are not intended to act as a back up by any means."
I think that is the point. It relies on 2 for ejection. If one is bent, burred, or damaged you get no love.
Think tweezers with one side bent? Personally I haven't experienced it happening, but have it on good authority that it can be an issue.
As far as quality goes I shot a qual at a neighbouring agency with a new 870 out of the box with ghost rings, alternating slugs and shot all day. It was flawless, literally out of the UPS truck I was told, And supposedly inspected before sent out for duty! I shot 4th and the f'ing guys in front of me on the line didn't tell me the sights were way off! So my first 2 at 50 were off, but I figured it out from the snickering. Everyone else got a pass as the sights got done by an armorer during a break.
. But it went the whole day like a slave without a FTF/FTE. 2000 rounds. 100 reps of 20 rounds each per 870, 4 on the line. 8000 examples that day of how the 870 just works.
I see no additional risk in having a dual extractor setup. Here's how I see it.
With two extractors your are reducing the risk of a stoppage due to the extractor(single as in an 870) slipping off the rim. With dual extractors your are extracting in a linear fashion which puts less stress on both extractors. AS YYYYY indicates(although I cannot confirm) the Mossberg will fail to operate if one of the two extractors fails. However, in a Remington, you only have one extractor which is doing all the work. The single extractor is also pulling in an A-symmetrical fashion thus inducing more stress on a single part. So in either case, a failed extractor would terminate either system, but the Mossberg has the advantage of more reliable extraction under less stress for the cost of one additional part. Add in the recessed shell lifter which greatly aids in loading the tube with the action closed, and the addition of an ambi tang safety.
TDC
With two extractors your are reducing the risk of a stoppage due to the extractor(single as in an 870) slipping off the rim. With dual extractors your are extracting in a linear fashion which puts less stress on both extractors. AS YYYYY indicates(although I cannot confirm) the Mossberg will fail to operate if one of the two extractors fails. However, in a Remington, you only have one extractor which is doing all the work. The single extractor is also pulling in an A-symmetrical fashion thus inducing more stress on a single part. So in either case, a failed extractor would terminate either system, but the Mossberg has the advantage of more reliable extraction under less stress for the cost of one additional part. Add in the recessed shell lifter which greatly aids in loading the tube with the action closed, and the addition of an ambi tang safety.
TDC
in are family we have two mossy 500s from the 60s one in 16g and one in 12g we also have three 870 wingmasters from th same dates .all of these guns have done there job to 100% of what was expected no faluersat all .my grand father and my uncle have hunted these guns for years on all kinds of game deer to rabbits and ducks turkeys and geese .thy are very well made guns we have shot them with model 12s and model 37 s with no diff .it all comes down to what one likes ford or chevy all are made to shoot DUTCH
I have had both and I kept the 590A1 and sold the junky 870.
I bought the 870 first because of all the hype and aftermarket parts for it.
The 870 wouldn't feed cheap ammo for one which really pissed me off. I have owned many shotguns over the years and never had seen this.
Some shells would get stuck in the chamber after shooting them. I talked to some gunsmiths about this and they said the chamber might have been cut wrong at the factory.
I think Norinco builds a better 870 than Remington!!!
So I bought the 590A1 and how about that, it feeds ANY SHELLS, and it never jams. Weird how that happens.
I bought the 870 first because of all the hype and aftermarket parts for it.
The 870 wouldn't feed cheap ammo for one which really pissed me off. I have owned many shotguns over the years and never had seen this.
Some shells would get stuck in the chamber after shooting them. I talked to some gunsmiths about this and they said the chamber might have been cut wrong at the factory.
I think Norinco builds a better 870 than Remington!!!
So I bought the 590A1 and how about that, it feeds ANY SHELLS, and it never jams. Weird how that happens.
Without delving into the fray too badly. I worked for a gun store for almost 4 years, in that time we send over a dozen Mossberg 590s including the much revered 590a1 with heavy Navy barrels back for warranty, both 14" and 20" guns. I personally have had issues with a heavy use 590 (light barrel plastic trigger group) as did the owner Brock. In my time at the shop we never sent any 870s back for warranty...on the contrary we refit a number of old 870 Wingmasters with fresh springs, (some even refit for 3" loads), bead blasted and parked and they went out to be further beat up. I think hands down the ergonomics of the 590 series is far superior to the 870 in every way but in my experience the triggers and receivers just don't hold up that well to very high round counts in the same way an 870 does.
