We used to use Copper Melt but different batches resulted in different results. Some of the compositions have reacted to the container lids and bubbled right through and others have almost lost all ability to clean. The manufacturer was very inconsistant in supplying product after we got several people interested in the product and wouldn't even call us back(didn't hear from him for six months)...sorry this might now be a good product (if the formulation is now stable) but it has left too bad a taste in our mouths to do further business with him. We sell and use Sweets, Wipeout and Shooters Choice with excellent results.
Removing copper?
- Thread starter schick
- Start date
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
As was mentioned before, clean to bare metal only if this helps accuracy. Many factory and surplus barrels shoot better when the copper and powder fouling 'fill' all those machine marks and pits. If you clean to bare metal then need several fouling shots to get the barrel to 'settle', forget about heavy duty cleaning. Your barrels don't like it.
For a commercial product, Barnes CR10 worked best for me (highest ammonia content I am aware of). Forget about any BR type cleaner, no where near strong enough. I have heard positive comments about Copper Melt but have no first hand experience. Sounds like a strong ammonia base anyways.
Mechanically, JB paste and the new JB bore polish will strip the barrel in short order. Great for polishing the bore too.
The cheapest and strongest stuff is janitorial grade ammonia. Use outdoors. Use a powder solvent first. Wipe in, wipe copper out. Don't let this stuff sit in your barrel for more then a few minutes. This on patches and on stiff nylon brushes and any bore will be stripped of all copper in a few minutes. About as strong as a person can buy without permits. Forget about the stuff you find in grocery stores. Way too weak.
If you use conc ammonia, you will need to oil your bore or flash rust will occur. Most commercial solvents have an oil based carrier so this eliminates the post oiling (usually).
Jerry
For a commercial product, Barnes CR10 worked best for me (highest ammonia content I am aware of). Forget about any BR type cleaner, no where near strong enough. I have heard positive comments about Copper Melt but have no first hand experience. Sounds like a strong ammonia base anyways.
Mechanically, JB paste and the new JB bore polish will strip the barrel in short order. Great for polishing the bore too.
The cheapest and strongest stuff is janitorial grade ammonia. Use outdoors. Use a powder solvent first. Wipe in, wipe copper out. Don't let this stuff sit in your barrel for more then a few minutes. This on patches and on stiff nylon brushes and any bore will be stripped of all copper in a few minutes. About as strong as a person can buy without permits. Forget about the stuff you find in grocery stores. Way too weak.
If you use conc ammonia, you will need to oil your bore or flash rust will occur. Most commercial solvents have an oil based carrier so this eliminates the post oiling (usually).
Jerry
I agree with the other fellows that mentioned JB paste. When my 270win rifle was brand new I found that using just Hoppes#9 and amonia based copper removers worked but took numerous patches(at least 10) and lots of time. After using JB's a few times, I rarely use it now in this rifle...just hoppes#9 and amonia based copper removers. The difference now is that about 3 patches of copper cleaner and barrel is absolutely clean. A cleaning time difference of about an hour + previously, to about 15 minutes now. My particular rifle shoots its best when absolutely cleaned...then fire about 10 shots...then I settle down to serious group shooting.
- Location
- calgary alberta
I guess my question here is why allow copper to build in the 1st place?
I have several rifles with many thousands of rounds through them that have NEVER had any copper fouling. I use Gun Juice in all of my rifles and NO copper, hence NO problem with fouling or nasty cleaners and elbow grease. :mrgreen:
I have several rifles with many thousands of rounds through them that have NEVER had any copper fouling. I use Gun Juice in all of my rifles and NO copper, hence NO problem with fouling or nasty cleaners and elbow grease. :mrgreen:
Long Range Canuck
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Athabasca Alberta aka God's Country
Do you use a bore snake with that Gun Juice :?: :idea: :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted:
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Randy, after you shoot 10rds, how clean is that bore? :wink:
Try running a dry Kleenbore black stiff nylon brush down the bore every now and then (20 to 40rds). Follow with a couple of dry patches to remove the loose soot. I bet you will not have to "clean" your bore for a long long time and it will shoot consistently well.
You also will not need that many fouling shots to settle that barrel. I suspect two is all you will need. If you do, clean even less.
Jerry
Try running a dry Kleenbore black stiff nylon brush down the bore every now and then (20 to 40rds). Follow with a couple of dry patches to remove the loose soot. I bet you will not have to "clean" your bore for a long long time and it will shoot consistently well.
You also will not need that many fouling shots to settle that barrel. I suspect two is all you will need. If you do, clean even less.
Jerry
Thanks Jerry
I should probably clean barrel a little more frequently. There is a spot near the muzzle where the copper first appears, and is the last spot for copper to remove completely during cleaning. I assume that must be a spot there that is not consistent with the rest of the bore for some reason. A close look at muzzle area does'nt show any visable problem though? I like your idea about those nylon brushes. I got tired of getting those invisible little slivers from the copper/brass brushes stuck in the foot or hand after cleaning. The nylon brush lasts forever and does'nt react with the amonia cleaners. The gun juice sounds interesting but I've never heard of it. I have tried that moly coating previously and did'nt like it. It did'nt live up to its advertised advantages that I could see and was very difficult to remove.
I should probably clean barrel a little more frequently. There is a spot near the muzzle where the copper first appears, and is the last spot for copper to remove completely during cleaning. I assume that must be a spot there that is not consistent with the rest of the bore for some reason. A close look at muzzle area does'nt show any visable problem though? I like your idea about those nylon brushes. I got tired of getting those invisible little slivers from the copper/brass brushes stuck in the foot or hand after cleaning. The nylon brush lasts forever and does'nt react with the amonia cleaners. The gun juice sounds interesting but I've never heard of it. I have tried that moly coating previously and did'nt like it. It did'nt live up to its advertised advantages that I could see and was very difficult to remove.
I use Outers foul out system. Cost about $100. This electroplate copper to a rod and remove all copper ( and lead if you use the proper solution)
This will not damage fine barrel as scrubbing do.
You still need to run a patch or two to remove carbon.
This is the easiest way to do it.
For those of you who read Varmit Hunter magazine, there is a fine article on cleaning and taking care of high end barrel. They chose Butch bore shine as the hand down winner to remove copper over other products.
This will not damage fine barrel as scrubbing do.
You still need to run a patch or two to remove carbon.
This is the easiest way to do it.
For those of you who read Varmit Hunter magazine, there is a fine article on cleaning and taking care of high end barrel. They chose Butch bore shine as the hand down winner to remove copper over other products.
- Location
- calgary alberta
I still don't get it, why not prevent copper fouling altogether rather than removing it? :mrgreen:
Something new to me to remove copper ( out of the same Varmit Hunter magazine )
1) They pass a patch trough the bore using Sweets 7.62
2) brush the barrel with Sweets ( kiss that brush goodby )
3) Let it soak 5 to 10 minutes ( no more !!)
4) Soak a patch with hydrogen peroxide and very, very slowly push it trough the bore
A chemical reaction will take place between the ammonia in the Sweets and the peroxide causing all copper to go into suspension.
Use one patch of Butch's bore shine. This should remove all copper.
I have not tried it yet, ( cannot get Sweets 7.62 locally), but this seem interesting and a fast way for cleaning at the range.
1) They pass a patch trough the bore using Sweets 7.62
2) brush the barrel with Sweets ( kiss that brush goodby )
3) Let it soak 5 to 10 minutes ( no more !!)
4) Soak a patch with hydrogen peroxide and very, very slowly push it trough the bore
A chemical reaction will take place between the ammonia in the Sweets and the peroxide causing all copper to go into suspension.
Use one patch of Butch's bore shine. This should remove all copper.
I have not tried it yet, ( cannot get Sweets 7.62 locally), but this seem interesting and a fast way for cleaning at the range.
- Location
- Northern Ontario
Copper fouling is always on top of a layer of carbon. The easiest way to lose the copper fouling is to undermine it by disolving the the carbon.
Ed's Red works well for this chore and then Mercury Quicksilver can be used to hit the exposed copper.
Bad fouling usually consists of alternate layers of carbon and copper so you have to alternate the solvents to solve the problem.
I have a bottle of Bore Shine that Butch gave me at a NBSRA shoot in Minnesota. I tried it. I still use Eds Red and Quicksiver in my bench guns.
Sweets is a good copper remover but it doesn't go after the carbon while Quick Silver does attack both carbon and copper.
Before anyone runs hydrogen peroxide through a barrel I suggest you first try this experiment. Put a few drops on a piece of steel (the outside of your barrel?) and let it sit. If the spot doesn't start to rust, maybe, it is OK for your barrel.
Ed's Red works well for this chore and then Mercury Quicksilver can be used to hit the exposed copper.
Bad fouling usually consists of alternate layers of carbon and copper so you have to alternate the solvents to solve the problem.
I have a bottle of Bore Shine that Butch gave me at a NBSRA shoot in Minnesota. I tried it. I still use Eds Red and Quicksiver in my bench guns.
Sweets is a good copper remover but it doesn't go after the carbon while Quick Silver does attack both carbon and copper.
Before anyone runs hydrogen peroxide through a barrel I suggest you first try this experiment. Put a few drops on a piece of steel (the outside of your barrel?) and let it sit. If the spot doesn't start to rust, maybe, it is OK for your barrel.
Rich,
Following your advise, I tried Hydrogen peroxide on different brand of gun I have .By itself, its not doing nothing. Look harmless. I used Hydrogen peroxide found in drug store, used for cuts and the like.
I am still not sure about this, but the firm that recommand this method is S.G. & Y. Precision Rifles in Tx. I will give then a call , just to make sure before I got for it..
Following your advise, I tried Hydrogen peroxide on different brand of gun I have .By itself, its not doing nothing. Look harmless. I used Hydrogen peroxide found in drug store, used for cuts and the like.
I am still not sure about this, but the firm that recommand this method is S.G. & Y. Precision Rifles in Tx. I will give then a call , just to make sure before I got for it..
Does it work in a factory barrel or are you talking match barrels? If factory it would be worth trying the juice. I would have to try it to believe it! My factory Sako needs the copper to stay in it or it just will not shoot. If I remove all the copper out it takes about 6-10 rounds to settle back down. I have since changed my cleaning of it to just remove the powder residue and that is it.alberta tactical rifle said:
My Gaillard barrel gets no copper fouling at all. All it sees is 2 wet patches of Butch's, then about 6 passes with a brush, 3 more wet patches, dry it out with 2 or 3 then oil.
Calvin
- Location
- Northern Ontario
Janeau said:
Speedy uses nothing but stainless steel barrels and like all serious shooters his opinion is always in a state of flux as he trys new ideas and products.
He is one of the guys that pointed me at Quick Silver during a gab session after a days shooting during a Super Shoot. There were a good dozen of us yapping away and at least a dozen different opinions on every subject.
I remember this session in particular because it is the only time I ever saw George Kelby lose his cool.
Ally Euber had been preaching the virtues of JB Bore Paste with which he was swabbing his barrel after every group.
Some of the guys had the opinion that it should not be used as it is an abrasive while others stated it was harmless.
Kelby got upset and went to his shop and came back with 2 polished steel squares. Bets were made, a dab of JB was placed on one square, the other square was placed on top, the 2 pieces were twisted against each other (about a full turn) then the 2 surfaces were sprayed to wash off the JB, the blocks were ruined. George grabbed the money and left.
As this thread doesn't appear to be bench rest specific the advice could be applied to carbon steel barrels.
I had an old Browning HP barrel on the bench when this treatment was mentioned and just to confirm my aged and failing memory of past experiments, I swabbed the outside of that barrel with hydrogen peroxide and the area rusted. The longer it was left the more pronounced the rust became.
To be fair Janeau wrote of a reaction between the ammonia in Sweets and hydogen peroxide while I was cautioning about the use of hydrogen peroxide.
The merits of these chemicals have been discussed for decades. There seem to be as many detractors as supporters. Typical with shooters.
- Location
- calgary alberta
It works well in my experience in any barrel, however the bore needs to 100% copperfree before treating it. I have found that 1 or 2 fouling shots have been plenty after treating the bore. :mrgreen:
