Removing expander from size die...

R

ReloaderRick

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I'm having trouble with my bullet run out. So I've read that if you remove your expander you can reduce the amount of force applied to the neck, which will reduce run out. It worked. My necks where almost perfect. Untill I seated my bullets. My run out, doubled as compared to before when I was using the expander.

Anyone ever try to size the neck with a neck turning mandrel, then use a factory crimp die to snug it up? Would this work? I just wanna make more concentric bullets. My run out with expander is averaging 2-5 thou. Without the expander is around 8-12 thou. HELP
 
Sounds like way too much neck tension without expanding, the trouble is expanding without creating runout... Is it possible for you to switch to neck sizing or do you need to bump the shoulder every time? Also, what die are you seating with? I hear awesome things about Forster BR seating dies and have one on order. Interwebz say .001" runout or less, some find them even better than Redding but I have no experience to back anything up just internet riff raff.
 
One thing you might try is to start the bullet then rotate the case 1/3. Raise the ram 1/3 rotate 1/3 until the bullet is fully seated.

See what the runout is after that.
 
Have you measured the neck wall thickness of the cases? What type of brass? And what are you using for a press and a bullet seater?
 
Remove the expander ball and re-size the case. Replace the ball and run the case into the die just enough to expand the neck. This will often reduce neck run-out.


or .....................

You can remove the expander ball and re-size the case. Use a Sinclair expander mandrel to open the neck.

sinclair-expander.JPG
 
'Boo said:
Remove the expander ball and re-size the case. Replace the ball and run the case into the die just enough to expand the neck. This will often reduce neck run-out.


or .....................

You can remove the expander ball and re-size the case. Use a Sinclair expander mandrel to open the neck.

sinclair-expander.JPG
Click to expand...

Oh thanks, more doo dads I need to buy!

Seriously though, I Love this hobby but I remember the days when I sailed past the reloading section of gun stores without a thought. Now I try to avoid it because I'll always walk out spending more than I intended.

RR, if you find a solution make sure you post back. Lots of times guys won't and no one learns that way.

Good luck.
 
More reloaded cartridge cases are resized and have excessive neck runout due to the expander button being locked down off center than any other reason. To center the expander button the lock nut should be loose on the down stroke of the ram with a case in the shell holder. When the expander just enters the neck of the case then tighten the lock nut, this centers the expander button.

Second, you must look out for dings in the extractor groove of the case, any damage there will cause the case to tilt on the down stroke and induce runout using normal methods.

Third, you can use the Sinclair expander mandrel as Boo has stated above, the mandrel "floats" and expands the neck on the up stroke of the ram with the case resting on its base. With the case resting on its base any dings in the extractor groove will not effect runout.

Forth, use a body die in conjunction with the Lee collet die and the case resting on its base.

Fifth, use a bushing die and nothing will touch the inside of the neck and induce runout.
 
bigedp51 said:
More reloaded cartridge cases are resized and have excessive neck runout due to the expander button being locked down off center than any other reason. To center the expander button the lock nut should be loose on the down stroke of the ram with a case in the shell holder. When the expander just enters the neck of the case then tighten the lock nut, this centers the expander button.
Click to expand...

Good tip but I'm not convinced this would work every time. Unless the lock nut faces are absolutely parallel the rod can be pulled one way or another when you tighten it.

I've rotated the expander rods on some of my dies, locked them down in 1/8 turns and looking at them from the bottom. The rod will always be in a different angle off center. I've had to straighten the rods with the lock not tight to center them.

biged. I have to size some 270 in the next few weeks and I'll see if your method works. I've already straightened the rod on my die but for sharts and giggles I'm going to see if it works for me. Knowing more is better and no better way to learn something than doing it!
 
07blackwater said:
Good tip but I'm not convinced this would work every time. Unless the lock nut faces are absolutely parallel the rod can be pulled one way or another when you tighten it.

I've rotated the expander rods on some of my dies, locked them down in 1/8 turns and looking at them from the bottom. The rod will always be in a different angle off center. I've had to straighten the rods with the lock not tight to center them.

biged. I have to size some 270 in the next few weeks and I'll see if your method works. I've already straightened the rod on my die but for sharts and giggles I'm going to see if it works for me. Knowing more is better and no better way to learn something than doing it!
Click to expand...

This tip is from the Speer reloading manual No.9 dated 1974 starting on page 91 entitled "Modern Benchrest Reloading Techniques". So I can tell you it works and I have done this for 39 years.
 
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