Researching a purchase of a long range target shooting spotting scope.

phishroy

phishroy

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Durham region
As the title indicates. I have found very scarce information and most of it seemed circumstantial and anecdotal.
I am looking for a spotting scope that has mrad or has the option of installing mrad or mil dots for correction by the spotter.
Distance would be for spotting at about 500 to 1000 meters. Not looking to see bullet holes but it would be nice to be able to see the vapor trail and a splash in the dust or see a steel target sway once hit.
I was told to look for optics that have HD (high density) glass.
I considered the vortex razor but after a bit of research and reading up on several sites about bad customer service I am I bit hesitant.
Top end of budget is $1500 including the reticle.
I would greatly appreciate input from people that have had the options to looking through several brands of scopes.
Would also appreciate info in regards to the types of glass, I’ve seen all sorts of acronyms and I have no idea what they refer too, other than the HD.
 
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Your budget is unimportant. For what you want to do there is no spotter better than a Kowa. Save until you have enough money for the Kowa. You will never regret it. I have used one extensively for BPCR shooting where you have to read wind and mirage out to 500 meters. They have exceptional clarity and a very easy to adjust focus which will help you fine tune the focus when you want to read mirage.
 
You won't be getting into a Razor for $1500.

I've only used the Razor x80 and it seemed to tick all my boxes. I'm sure there are other nice units out there, but quality costs money. Especially with optics.
 
Im saving up but meanwhile I am trying to learn as much as possible.
Can someone explain to me the difference in the glass types.
I understand that HD means high density glass which is monochromatic. Which helps keep the sharpness of the image.

what is XD glass? And ED glass or GA-ED glass what are the differences?
 
I have 80mm Razor and the lens are superb. I'd go for Kowa if you plan to use it frequently.
I mounted the Canon digital camera (DSLR) to Razor and it was clear and sharp.
 
Hey phishroy,

A scope with high density glass is a must if you want to see clearly out to those ranges. A higher end Vortex would be a good option if you are looking to stay around $1500 all in (I wouldn't worry about what a few reviews say about their service. Every experience I've had or helped deal with for customers has been positive). The Razor model is a bit above that budget unless you go with the 11-33x50, but from the sounds of it, you will want a little more power than that. The Viper is the line under the Razor that still features high density glass and a really clear picture. You can be into the 20-60x80 for $1369.99 before taxes and that is the scope and the eye piece. I haven't had any personal experience with the Kowa spotters that BigUglyMan suggested, so those would be worth checking out as well, if you can find a store that will let you test one out. I have used Bushnell, Vortex, and Swarovski spotting scopes to spot for shooters and I can honestly say that the more you spend, the more you get. My best suggestion, though a bit cliche, is to buy the best glass you can afford because it really does make a difference. If you want to chat more on the subject, please feel free to give me a call at 1-877-547-6873 and I'd be glad to help you out.

Best Regards,
Anthony Haines
Inside Sales Specialist
 
phishroy said:
Im saving up but meanwhile I am trying to learn as much as possible.
Can someone explain to me the difference in the glass types.
I understand that HD means high density glass which is monochromatic. Which helps keep the sharpness of the image.

what is XD glass? And ED glass or GA-ED glass what are the differences?
Click to expand...

HD, ED, FL used to mean something, now they are more marketing terms than anything else.

ED stands for extra-low dispersion, FL stands for fluorite, HD is high density. These are all pretty vague and can describe a whole bunch of different glass types, some much better than others.

For example, the ED term used to be ascribed to FPL 51 or FPL 53 glass, there is a big difference in cost between those two glass types, but now there are several manufacturers who say their glass is "ED" and also refuse to say where they source their glass; meaning it is doubtful it is either grade.

FL stands for fluorite, which is not a glass at all; but a crystal grown in a laboratory that has superior optical characteristics to glass. It is extremely expensive to make and that cost grows exponentially to the size of the blank. It used to mean when a scope or binos were "fluorite" that the objective was a fluorite doublet. Now it can mean that they just use a fluorite element somewhere in the optical train (a small element in the eyepiece is a lot cheaper than an objective made of fluorite). Now FL can mean they just use fluoride in a coating.

Basically my point is: don't listen to marketing acroynyms. Read reviews on bird watching forums. If you ever want binos read reviews on astronomy and bird watching forums. They generally know far more about optics than guys on hunting and shooting forums.

Also, BUM recommended a Kowa. They are excellent.
 
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cam1936 said:
Basically my point is: don't listen to marketing acroynyms. Read reviews on bird watching forums. If you ever want binos read reviews on astronomy and bird watching forums. They generally know far more about optics than guys on hunting and shooting forums.
Click to expand...

This.

Don't listen to market hype and big or impressive words to hype one's product. Breaks down to what product works best. Lots and lots of highly detailed reviews on bird forums.
 
Thank you all for the information.
It’s tricky navigating through allot of the marketing aspect of the manufacturers information to try and find out the differences in glass between brands.
Although there are, each manufacturer claims their glass is the best.
So trying to find comparative information.
It looks like I will have to save up more and at least I have a sense of direction as to what type of glass I need to look at. Will scrap the ED glass and will look at HD glass.
Another question that I have;
Are any of the eye pieces interchangeable between manufacturers?

For example: will a vortex eyepiece work with a kowa scope?
 
I had the Razor and then purchased the Kowa Prominar 883. When guys at the range ask to compare it with theirs, nothing has been better from their responses. I have not viewed the Nightforce spotter but am told it's good and very rugged.

Agreed on reviewing bird watching sites they have the best review information available.
Eye pieces are generally not interchangeable except for a few
 
Some eyepieces happen to be interchangeable, apparently the Razor will fit Swarovski EPs. Generally no, they are not like telescope eyepieces that are a universal size.

As for the ED vs HD. Ignore it totally. Both are vague and good scopes are marketed both ways. Read individual reviews and threads on bird forum.

The Swarovski ATX 95 in generally considered to be at the top of the market at this time. It is also staggeringly expensive at $4400 USD. The Kowa TSN 883 is very well regarded, and at $2650 USD w/ zoom EP is a bit more down to earth. The Meopta S2 82mm HD is also extremely well regarded, many saying better or at least equal to the Swaro ATS 80 HD ($2900 USD w/ zoom EP), at quite a bit less cost ($2300 USD w/ zoom ep).

Next year I'm going to buy a high end full sized spotter and am leaning towards the Meopta S2 HD. A possibility is the Cabelas Euro HD version as it is identical (Meopta rebadges these for Cabelas)and they go on sale every once and awhile. However the Cabelas version is fixed with the 20-70 zoom and I think I want the 30-60 wide angle.
 
Hunting partner and I have a vortex viper hd 20-60x80 and it is excellent. It got messed up during shipment and vortex handled it extremely fast. Like under a week fast.

EDIT woops didn't read post fully. No reticle
 
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Do these options have a reticle like the OP mentioned?? I don't know, I'm asking....

If you can live without the reticle, a Pentax 80-EDA is a great value (about 1000$, plus a 400$ eyepiece).

Leupold makes a gold ring with a reticle.
 
If you will be using this in the summer months, a good quality scope with a fixed magnification between 20x to 30x, and an objective between 50-60mm is adequate for spotting swirl (or "vapour trail"), and bullet splash on dry soil, or steel plates out to 800m, at least.
Too much magnification, and you will get problems with mirage, wind buffeting the scope, and difficulty setting up and finding your target quickly. The big scopes are also heavy and bulky to carry around.
 
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