resized .243 hard to chamber...hmmm

[Alleycat]

Dan B has you on the right track as do the other 17 or 18 posters too.
But, I will add just a bit more info for you to digest.
When seating the die into the press(before locking ring is secured) do you compress the shell holder a tad more or do you just allow the lip of die to touch the shell holder?
When I was reloading (RCBS Gear) I would let the die lip rest on the shell holder and then give another 1/16 of a turn on seating the die before securing the locking ring.
Test it by stroking the ram up and down a few times( no shells ) and watch the movement in the shell holder...
Does this make any sense?
Tight Groups,
Rob

Rob this makes total sense and the first time I set up the die in the press I just raised the ram so the shell holder barely kissed it and gave the die another quarter turn. After discovering my sizing issue and reading the reply's here, I noticed the movement of the shell holder when it touched the die so lowered the die a little more and also finished of resizing stroke with a little more pressure. (As a note I also tried removing the expander but that made no difference.)
This seems to have done the trick. It still makes me wonder if a shim under the case or a couple .001 of the shell holder wouldn't help...

 

[bigedp51]

Dan B has you on the right track as do the other 17 or 18 posters too.
But, I will add just a bit more info for you to digest.
When seating the die into the press(before locking ring is secured) do you compress the shell holder a tad more or do you just allow the lip of die to touch the shell holder?
When I was reloading (RCBS Gear) I would let the die lip rest on the shell holder and then give another 1/16 of a turn on seating the die before securing the locking ring.
Test it by stroking the ram up and down a few times( no shells ) and watch the movement in the shell holder...
Does this make any sense?
Tight Groups,
Rob

FLHTCUI

I have four different .223 die sets, the Lee die pushes the shoulder back .005 more than my RCBS die. Each rifle chamber is slightly different and each reloading die is different and no two people will get the same results.

To be more exact you should measure your fired cases for cartridge headspace length and bump the shoulder of the case back far enough to chamber in the type rifle you are shooting. For a bolt action you bump the shoulder back .001 to .002 and on a semi you bump the shoulder back .002 to .004 and these are general thumb rules.



Normally in a perfect world a full length resizing die should push the shoulder of the case back .002 to .004 smaller than minimum chamber length or the GO gauge. Fortunately 99.999999% of the time a full length die will make the case shorter than your chamber. "BUT" many dies will push the shoulder back too far when making hard contact with the shell holder (Press cam over) and over resize the case and shorten case life.

Below is a Redding Competition Shellholder Set that contains five shellholders, each shellholder is .002 taller than the next with the tallest being .010 taller than a standard shellholder. I have these because military rifles have longer headspace settings and I prefer to have the die make hard contact with the shellholder and get constant resized case lengths.



I'm saying this because not every reloading press is the same, nor are the rifles and dies you use, and what works for you may be different for someone else. The only way to be 100% sure of cartridge case headspace length is to measure your fired cases and remeasure them after you resize them for proper fit.



I prefer the Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge because you only need one gauge instead of several individual gauges and the dial indicator is easy to see. Having a gauge like this removes the guesswork of setting up your dies and prevents a bull moose from stomping you to death because a cartridge case was just a little too long.

 

[bigedp51]

Alleycat

I'm retired and have been reloading for over 45 years, once in all that time I needed a shorter shellholder. During the last .010 thousandths of upward movement of the ram the case is actually getting longer as it is compressed. Then during the last few thousandths movement of the ram the cartridge case contacts the shoulder of the die and starts pushing the shoulder of the cartridge case back smaller than the chamber.

As an experiment adjust your die upward and put approximately 1/8 of an inch of air space between the shellholder and the bottom of the die (partial full length resizing) and see if the resized case fits your chamber. This will partially resize the neck and body of the case but the case should not grow longer in headspace and fit the chamber normally.

Below is an example of resizing cases with the die making hard contact with the shellholder and case life. Meaning much of the time we have the opposite problem you are having and over resize the case by pushing the shoulder back too far. I can't stress this enough, case gauges take the guesswork out of setting up your dies.

 

[1899]

Good posts Bigedp51

 

[FLHTCUI]

Bigedp51, I am far from an expert on reloading and thus only buy Premium ammo now.
Not because I am rich, but I had no mentor to teach/show me the ropes .
I learned from reading Guns and Ammo magazines in the day before the internet.
I used RCBS kit because that was the best bang for the buck for me at the time.
I used FL(full length) dies for my bolt action rifles and SB(small base) dies for the Blr in .243...
I see by your post you are more than just an enthusiast and willing to take the time to post very good info.
So, from now on I will add disclaimers to my posts when it comes to offering advice from my experience.
I wouldnt want anyone to get hurt following my experience and construed as advice.
Tight Groups,
Rob

 

[Alleycat]

Bigedp51, Thank you for all the info. Being fairly new to the hobby I have to say it's a little overwhelming but I will definitely give your suggestions a try.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

Cheers
Allan

Alleycat

I'm retired and have been reloading for over 45 years, once in all that time I needed a shorter shellholder. During the last .010 thousandths of upward movement of the ram the case is actually getting longer as it is compressed. Then during the last few thousandths movement of the ram the cartridge case contacts the shoulder of the die and starts pushing the shoulder of the cartridge case back smaller than the chamber.

As an experiment adjust your die upward and put approximately 1/8 of an inch of air space between the shellholder and the bottom of the die (partial full length resizing) and see if the resized case fits your chamber. This will partially resize the neck and body of the case but the case should not grow longer in headspace and fit the chamber normally.

Below is an example of resizing cases with the die making hard contact with the shellholder and case life. Meaning much of the time we have the opposite problem you are having and over resize the case by pushing the shoulder back too far. I can't stress this enough, case gauges take the guesswork out of setting up your dies.

 

[bratt]

if you have your die set up normally again size another case as per usual and note just how hard it is to pull the expander up through the neck...now chamber the unprimed brass in your rifle. if it still is hard to chamber then this time take another case and dip a Qtip into some fine powdered graphite very lightly so theres not all that much on the Qtip and run it around the inside of the neck and then run it through the press . you will notice that lifting the press handle is super smooth and easy now . chamber it and see if it makes any difference..maybe the upward pull is somewhat stretching the case ? ive been reloading for years and always disliked how hard it was to run the expander button through the case but since i started lightly lubing with graphite its much easier..

 

[79Jimmy]

Just went through this exact issue as I was reloading 223 for a new to me CZ527 Varmint on a Rockchucker. My loaded rounds would not chamber properly, some would with effort, others not at all. Thought I wasnt seating deep enough....Well after scratching my head and a few google searches I merely tightened my Redding bushing die down further until the rounds chambered with minimal resistance. Took about 3/16 of a turn past the point of contact of the shellholder and the bottom of the die. Thought about taking a few thou of the shellholder or the die but tried this first and all is good. Very easy solution and was able to fix the loaded rounds by removing the neck bushing and using it as a body die.

 

[22to45]

No just a savage.

Just a savage... my 243 savage will shoot with any browning.. however, it is unlikely that the chamber is tight, I have not seen this asked yet, but is the chamber clean? Put a little bore cleaner on a shotgun brush and scrub the chamber. If you had a narrow feeler gauge you could put it under a case and size it, say with .002 there to see if it makes it better, if your press is one that cams over at the top, like my old RCBS, set it deep enough that there is a bit of cam over with no case, to know you are at the top with all the stretch out of the threads and the frame of the press, then try another cartridge. Can you measure the outside of the neck of a sized cartridge, and the outside of a factory load? I am just rambling, hope you find a cure...

 

[c-fbmi]

As you advance Alleycat in this game you will read more and understand more of what Bridge is saying, you will learn to adjust each die for each gun you own for perfect headspace every time, thus giving you the greatest potential for accuracy and case life as well as 100% reliable chambering. This is the ultimate goal afterall. To just blanket say set all dies for all rifles with a heavy contact or bump or cam over, whichever term you use, is not right either. It obviously is for this rifle and die combo but this is not universal, I have over 100 loading dies and have loaded for literally hundreds of calibers and rifles over the past 40 years and I can tell you there is no universal setting. As Bridge said it is a world of plus and minuses and no two set of variables are the same. It is important that you learn to set your dies for each and every rifles' headspace. The best fit of all is to keep adjusting your die down until the case chambers very snugly, this is fine for range work but I like a little less bolt tension for hunting ammo, so......I move the die down just another whisper until I can still "feel" the case when I close the bolt, but with almost no resistance. I have hunted from the high Arctic and minus 50 deg C to +55 deg C in Zambia and have never had ammo fail me or fail to feed using this simple proceedure of die setting. I also never get head separations from too much brass movement due to excess headspace. (my primer pockets don't last that long, but that's another whole story and a whole nother set of plus and minuses LOL)

Go to your loading room and play with your equipment, experiment with die settings and feeling that case in the chamber, don't be afraid of it and don't be afraid to wreck the odd case in the name of learning. Set up your seating die and find where your crimp ring is inside, run a case up and feel the crimp, bring it out and visually look at it, set the die down a bit more and run the case up again and visually see what happens inside there, eventually you'll get far enough to collapse the case shoulder, but now you know what it feels like and can visualize what is happening inside that die. There is no magic or mysteries only stuff that you don't know YET. Get familiar with your equipment, know everything that is happening to that brass case inside those dies and you'll know more than 50% of loaders out there. Again, don't be afraid to sacrifice a few cases in the name of learning and knowlege, they make them every day in the States by the millions.

 

[Alleycat]

Just a savage... my 243 savage will shoot with any browning.. however, it is unlikely that the chamber is tight, I have not seen this asked yet, but is the chamber clean?

I meant no disrespect to Savage rifles or their owners. One of the reasons I wanted to reload is because this rifle shoots so well...much better than me. It's new and clean and factory ammo loads slick. Anyway the brass I'm sizing now fits as well as factory so whatever I did wrong has been corrected so I'm on the right path. Also as I learn I'm starting to think i should get a neck sizing die instead of FL sizing everything...

As you advance Alleycat in this game you will read more and understand more of what Bridge is saying, you will learn to adjust each die for each gun you own for perfect headspace every time, thus giving you the greatest potential for accuracy and case life as well as 100% reliable chambering. This is the ultimate goal afterall. To just blanket say set all dies for all rifles with a heavy contact or bump or cam over, whichever term you use, is not right either. It obviously is for this rifle and die combo but this is not universal, I have over 100 loading dies and have loaded for literally hundreds of calibers and rifles over the past 40 years and I can tell you there is no universal setting. As Bridge said it is a world of plus and minuses and no two set of variables are the same. It is important that you learn to set your dies for each and every rifles' headspace. The best fit of all is to keep adjusting your die down until the case chambers very snugly, this is fine for range work but I like a little less bolt tension for hunting ammo, so......I move the die down just another whisper until I can still "feel" the case when I close the bolt, but with almost no resistance. I have hunted from the high Arctic and minus 50 deg C to +55 deg C in Zambia and have never had ammo fail me or fail to feed using this simple proceedure of die setting. I also never get head separations from too much brass movement due to excess headspace. (my primer pockets don't last that long, but that's another whole story and a whole nother set of plus and minuses LOL)

Go to your loading room and play with your equipment, experiment with die settings and feeling that case in the chamber, don't be afraid of it and don't be afraid to wreck the odd case in the name of learning. Set up your seating die and find where your crimp ring is inside, run a case up and feel the crimp, bring it out and visually look at it, set the die down a bit more and run the case up again and visually see what happens inside there, eventually you'll get far enough to collapse the case shoulder, but now you know what it feels like and can visualize what is happening inside that die. There is no magic or mysteries only stuff that you don't know YET. Get familiar with your equipment, know everything that is happening to that brass case inside those dies and you'll know more than 50% of loaders out there. Again, don't be afraid to sacrifice a few cases in the name of learning and knowlege, they make them every day in the States by the millions.

I am on a steep learning curve and love it. Just wish I had more time to put into reloading. Strongly thinking of putting my daughters up for adoption so I can get into reloading more... I have so many shooting and hunting companions yet I'm the only one reloading, to bad some of the more experienced reloaders weren't closer...maybe I could trade beer for knowledge.

That being said I really appreciate all the help and have to say the more I reload the more I find myself saying "oh that's what he/she/they meant by saying blah blah blah..."

 

[c-fbmi]

Bigedp51........my apologies for referring to you as Bridge......that is what my eyes have seen your handle to read for the last year...not sure why it registered this way but it just did until I actually stopped and read your handle. Got straight now !!!

 

[bigedp51]

Bigedp51........my apologies for referring to you as Bridge......that is what my eyes have seen your handle to read for the last year...not sure why it registered this way but it just did until I actually stopped and read your handle. Got straight now !!!

You should have heard what my wife called me the other night when I spent $700.00 dollars an a very slightly used S&W 29-5 .44 magnum.
(it sounded something like "son of a bridge")