Resized Soft Lead Bullet Lost Lube Grooves

Fox

Fox

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Hey guys, I was given some .257 bullets for my 25 Stevens project, they are 70ish grain and I got them to get as close to the original 65gr as possible.

I have a sizing die to bring them down to .251, the required size but when I do this the lube grooves are essentially non-existent. I tried pan lubing the bullets before sizing as I was told that this would help hold the grooves, well it did nothing.

I will be shooting black powder, I know I need some lube somehow. Does anyone have any idea of what I can do here? These will be shot at around 1000fps, can I go without lube? Can I lube the base or will that interact with the BP and cause issues? The case does not really have room for a lube cookie.

Thanks
 
I will not ever be using Alox with black powder ever again since having to scrape it out of a 32S&W gallery rifle my father had.
Could dip lube after loading like a heeled bullet round or do lube cookies but either will be extra steps. I'd probably dip them myself.

Surprised the grooves are wiped off that bad but I suppose they aren't very deep on such a small bullet to start with.
 
Did you physically measure the boolits before and after or just assuming you went from .257 to .251?

Post an image of before and after if you can. A different boolit style may be in order.

M
 
vagrantviking said:
I will not ever be using Alox with black powder ever again since having to scrape it out of a 32S&W gallery rifle my father had.
Could dip lube after loading like a heeled bullet round or do lube cookies but either will be extra steps. I'd probably dip them myself.

Surprised the grooves are wiped off that bad but I suppose they aren't very deep on such a small bullet to start with.
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Dip 'em after seating? Wax?
At 1000 fps it shouldn't be a dire issue, but keep a brush n' rod close. I've had .22 rimfire pass through here 100 years old, and much fired. Leading isn't usually an issue with them.
 
.22 ammo pretty well always has a waxy coating even if it's copper plated. Some looks more like a graphite treatment. With black you really want something to soften the fouling.
Get some BP friendly lube from Dragonlube or SPG or make some with beeswax and Crisco or olive oil. Would mix it to be fairly hard. Then microwave or use a double boiler to heat it quite warm and dip to get a really thin coat.
 
vagrantviking said:
.22 ammo pretty well always has a waxy coating even if it's copper plated. Some looks more like a graphite treatment. With black you really want something to soften the fouling.
Get some BP friendly lube from Dragonlube or SPG or make some with beeswax and Crisco or olive oil. Would mix it to be fairly hard. Then microwave or use a double boiler to heat it quite warm and dip to get a really thin coat.
Click to expand...

This.

Orig rimfire was BP, and they got it sorted a hundred years ago...the effect of BP in 100yr old rimfires is far more troublesome than lead.
 
I was thinking the same, the "Long" version had a case length of 1.125" and an overall length of 1.395", my case length will be about 0.9", so with the really long for weight bullet I thought I may be able to seat the bullet a little long and even apply lube with my finger to the outside. These rounds are not heeled, they were always an inside lubricated bullet like the 22 WMR but I have not pulled on apart, I am debating though but I only have about 10 original rounds.

I know the BP in a small bore is hard, the original BP loads used a grain they referred to as "dust", my assumption is that I will not get ideal velocities with the FFFg I have here for another antique but FFFFg may be the one I need to pickup. The 17 WSM brass is much stronger than the 25 Stevens original, I do not think 10gr of BP or whatever I need to put in there to get a compressed load with the bullet loaded to an ideal depth will not do anything dangerous, the rounds I have are all smokeless for this gun, made in the 70s I believe.

I was thinking of a card wad with a bit of 50/50 Beeswax/Crisco dipped on the base of the bullet, similar to a grease cookie, I know it will be a lot of work but heck, I am trying to load for a 100 year old rimfire, so hard was what I signed up for.

I know a lot of people say I am crazy but this was Grandpas gun, the only reason I want to get it to run again is so that I can shoot it and my daughter can shoot it, not for mass shooting but to be able to use it when I want.

I just tossed a caliper on these, the cast bullet is 0.259", the diameter inside the lube groove is 0.232", the sized bullets are 0.251" on the dot, the groove is still there but comes out at 0.246" but not even all the way around, that is for sure.
 
Being soft lead, could you not just shoot them lubed and unsized?

Just a thought? I shot 45 through my 44 C&B after installing a conversion cylinder. Worked like a hot damned.

M
 
gnmontey said:
Being soft lead, could you not just shoot them lubed and unsized?

Just a thought? I shot 45 through my 44 C&B after installing a conversion cylinder. Worked like a hot damned.

M
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The problem is that just like a 22LR they were designed as soft lead from the beginning, .251 soft lead, my worry would be a massive pressure spike. I can get .251 50gr bullets but they are too light to match the original weight and they are hard cast, which is significantly harder than the original.
 
Interesting, so 2 mill files, size the bullets then through the file, pan lube and if the size is too big size again. With all the knurling it should hold enough lube, even after sizing that second time.
 
While researching sizing down in large amounts I came across a tip on castboolits that made sense. When doing major sizing, enough to squeeze the lube grooves out, pan lube the bullets before sizing. The lube should not compress so it will maintain the lube grooves. I've never tried it, just read it on the internet so ymmv.
 
supernova said:
While researching sizing down in large amounts I came across a tip on castboolits that made sense. When doing major sizing, enough to squeeze the lube grooves out, pan lube the bullets before sizing. The lube should not compress so it will maintain the lube grooves. I've never tried it, just read it on the internet so ymmv.
Click to expand...

he tried that already
 
supernova said:
While researching sizing down in large amounts I came across a tip on castboolits that made sense. When doing major sizing, enough to squeeze the lube grooves out, pan lube the bullets before sizing. The lube should not compress so it will maintain the lube grooves. I've never tried it, just read it on the internet so ymmv.
Click to expand...

Ya, that is what I tried, I think that due to this being dead soft lead takes that and tosses it out the window.

I grabbed some of the sized bullets and brought them to work with me, I can use some mill files here to test out the knurling and if that works I can just go with that.

I even think rubbing the lube into those knurls will be better than nothing but I have read that alox is garbage with BP, I have not yet shot anything BP and this is my first time reloading with cast, so lots of new experiences.
 
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