Responsible selling of antique pistols

Win 38-55

Win 38-55

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A couple weeks ago, when I was wracking my brains trying to figure out how to get the funds to buy an original S&W Schofield, I was considering the possibility of selling my New Model #3 antique six -shooter. Fortunately, I regained my senses and sold an old Winchester 1886 instead. (What an idiot! How could I have even thought about selling my beautiful old New Model #3 44 Russian!! I must have really been out of it!) However, as I contemplated how I would sell it, it occurred to me that if I merely advertised it as an 'antique six shooter, no registration, permits or PAL required', perhaps some bandana-headed gang member in Toronto might get wind of this and buy it through our CGN exchange forum (how do I know who it might be?). Even worse, horror of horrors, even if he couldn't get ammo for it, he might start showing it off, or get arrested with it on his person and the media would go ballistic. Then I could see the politicians and the Liberals yelling for changes to the law, etc, etc, and ... well, I don't even want to think about it. (Nevermind that he had no ammo for it. We could always say, 'yeah, but did you notice he had no ammo for it?', but we all know how eager the media would be to mention that little fact.)

For that reason, when I ran into this fellow who had several antique New Model #3's for sale, I mentioned it on this forum, not the main one for pistols. My thinking was that it was unlikely that some gang member would be hanging out in the 'Blackpowder and antiques' forum. Nevertheless, I see the moderator moved it to the 'Exchange for pistols and revolvers' forum. Five or six people have contacted me, none of whom I knew from Job's Uncle.

All this raises the question. First, how do we responsibly sell antique handguns such that no moron/yahoo is going to buy it and use it (even if he can't get ammo for it, he might do something stupid like brandish it). Second, when you do sell an antique handgun, what precautions do you take to make sure the fellow is not a buyer for a Toronto or Vancouver gang? I've never sold an antique handgun yet, but I can imagine that I will be wanting to be careful with who I sell it to. The last thing any of us needs is for some crack head to get one and start showing it off, even if he can't get ammo for it.

I'm just throwing this out for your ideas of how to safeguard our antiques.
 
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I doubt very much that they will pay what we ask when they can get what they want from from the street for cash no strings . there are plenty of gun show dealers selling antique firearms every week to who ever .It is not our responsibility unless you knowingly sell it to someone knowing they intend to commit a crime with it . Remember they are still classed as firearms and a person who is banned from owning or possessing firearms in Canada cannot own antique ones . But you cannot check there back ground . you can only weigh them up as you see them to make them show you a valid POL or PAL would negate the whole idea of antique firearms if I was asked to show mine in order to purchase an antique . I would say GET STUFFED! I don't need one .I have no easy answer to this question when you sell a car you don't ask the person if they intend to drive drunk and kill people .or when you sell a baseball bat at a yard sale do you ask the person if they intend to assault some one with it ? As long as you sell it legally and I would suggest keeping a record and be darn sure it is an antique the reason why I'm saying that is at a gun show I saw an Italian pistol being sold as an antique and I believe it was not the date stamped on it said 1889 but the second 8 was larger than the first and stamped deeper probably was 1899 and had been altered I pointed this out to the dealer who I have seen many times before He said he had not noticed but by the smirk on his face I think he had so be careful is all I'm saying Ignorance is no excuse.
 
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You can choose to sell it to PAL holders only. Most likely your average criminal is not going to want an antique handgun anyway. If they had no other options then it might be a concern. But since there is no shortage of modern illegal guns out there it is highly unlikely that a criminal would pay a premium for a old gun.
 
The high price of antique six shooters is a good point. Why would someone pay $2,500 for a New Model #3 for which he can't get ammo, when he could buy a sem-auto 9mm on the street for $450?

In fact, it is my feeling that the ammo restrictions for antique pistols should be dropped. It is the rarity and hi cost of antique pistols that filters out most people but collectors. Same goes for rifles made prior to 1898. Whether they are repeaters or not, or what their caliber is, is irrelevant. The truth of the matter is they are dadgummed expensive.
 
I think DEZ has answered this well.
one point about Rudy Hs post tho!
People with POLs are also legal to own guns to not just the PAL people.
 
I think Dez is right,the criminal element have lots of sources to buy illegal firearms that we dont have to worry about them buying antiques.I dont think they consider the
historical value of a nice antique and would probably think
them so much junk at least that is my thought of their low
mentality.I think only those of us who appreciate them will
buy them.
 
I think Dez is right,the criminal element have lots of sources to buy illegal firearms that we dont have to worry about them buying antiques.I dont think they consider the
historical value of a nice antique and would probably think
them so much junk at least that is my thought of their low
mentality.I think only those of us who appreciate them will
buy them.
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Yeah, I wonder how many criminals would buy a $2000 Webley MkI than a $200 pistol that can shoot readily available ammo from their drug dealer... Most "gangsters" probably wouldn't go to the trouble to handload 8mm Lebel Revolver or .450 Boxer.

That being said, people here who have been members for a while and/or have high trader ratings are more than likely safe bets. Also, you could always ask if they have a firearms licsense, as most people who will be buying these will, and ask if they can show you it.
 
38-55 Basically the toys we play with can only be afforded by honest, hard working, tax paying stiffs like us. LOL. I just dropped 2K total on my latest antique shooter, not exactly the kind of purchase made by anyone smart enough to have a different hobby!

It is wise to be cautious and a good citizen though. I always check a potential buyers posts, make sure they are older then 18 and if possible have a chat on the phone with them to get a sense of who they are.

Hey are'nt you suppose to be out loading for the 45 schofield and amasssing data??? You don't have time to worry about social responsibility!
 
A fellow on here sold a 32 rimfire pistol with ammo to another gunnut and the buyer was later nabbed by police with it loaded in his pocket. So it can happen.

K

Win 38-55 said:
A couple weeks ago, when I was wracking my brains trying to figure out how to get the funds to buy an original S&W Schofield, I was considering the possibility of selling my New Model #3 antique six -shooter. Fortunately, I regained my senses and sold an old Winchester 1886 instead. (What an idiot! How could I have even thought about selling my beautiful old New Model #3 44 Russian!! I must have really been out of it!) However, as I contemplated how I would sell it, it occurred to me that if I merely advertised it as an 'antique six shooter, no registration, permits or PAL required', perhaps some bandana-headed gang member in Toronto might get wind of this and buy it through our CGN exchange forum (how do I know who it might be?). Even worse, horror of horrors, even if he couldn't get ammo for it, he might start showing it off, or get arrested with it on his person and the media would go ballistic. Then I could see the politicians and the Liberals yelling for changes to the law, etc, etc, and ... well, I don't even want to think about it. (Nevermind that he had no ammo for it. We could always say, 'yeah, but did you notice he had no ammo for it?', but we all know how eager the media would be to mention that little fact.)

For that reason, when I ran into this fellow who had several antique New Model #3's for sale, I mentioned it on this forum, not the main one for pistols. My thinking was that it was unlikely that some gang member would be hanging out in the 'Blackpowder and antiques' forum. Nevertheless, I see the moderator moved it to the 'Exchange for pistols and revolvers' forum. Five or six people have contacted me, none of whom I knew from Job's Uncle.

All this raises the question. First, how do we responsibly sell antique handguns such that no moron/yahoo is going to buy it and use it (even if he can't get ammo for it, he might do something stupid like brandish it). Second, when you do sell an antique handgun, what precautions do you take to make sure the fellow is not a buyer for a Toronto or Vancouver gang? I've never sold an antique handgun yet, but I can imagine that I will be wanting to be careful with who I sell it to. The last thing any of us needs is for some crack head to get one and start showing it off, even if he can't get ammo for it.

I'm just throwing this out for your ideas of how to safeguard our antiques.
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Ouch! What was he doing with a loaded 32 rimfire in his pocket!!

David Doyle, the Schofield doesn't arrive until Tuesday or Wednesday. Brass is on its way and I've got the dies and cast bullets in hand. If all goes well, there'll be a nice photo, complete with rotten logs and autumn leaves, posted before the end of the week.

And the price of these things is outrageous.

Here's a sneak preview:
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DSC07013.jpg
 
It is wise to be cautious and a good citizen though. I always check a potential buyers posts, make sure they are older then 18 and if possible have a chat on the phone with them to get a sense of who they are.
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I'm not trying to cause any trouble here, but I think there are some people under 18 who are perfectly good cantidates for antique firearm purchases. I'm not saying that everyone under 18 is qualified, but is everyone over 18 qualified? If they have their firearms licsense, CSSA membership, Black Badge qualified, good trader rating, genuinely interested in the history of firearms and the specific firearm's background, will go to the trouble to handload an obsolete caliber. I do know that there are probably not many out there, but they are out there. And IMO further limiting a responsible citizen from acsess to firearms is kind of like how some stores in BC and Alberta record info for ammo purchases, or some of the anti's with the "what do you need a gun for" argument.

Personally, I am looking to purchase an antique Webley MK I or II for use in competitions that I drive to, so that I can compete without an RPAL... without a suitable pistol I might not be able to compete. A minor can have a licsense that will permit him/her to be in posession of a non-restricted firearm for legal purposes. In my view if a minor is qualified to posess a non-restricted firearm, a minor is qualified to posess an antique revolver.

By all means, the seller has the right to, and probably should do a little check on the purchaser if possible, but there are some factors one may consider which may not be reasonable.
 
Good point. Growing up in a rural area near Dauphin, Manitoba, I got my first rifle at the age of 13 ... an old 303 Lee Metcalf with a 10 shot clip. I was very responsible thanks to the excellent training given me by my father, my mother (yes .... my mother, who started shooting when she was about 10 years old) and my grandfather. I would certainly have been trustworthy with an antique six shooter. Of course, not all teens are, but some who have been trained properly and demonstrate maturity and responsibility, don't have to wait until they are 18.
 
And IMO further limiting a responsible citizen from acsess to firearms is kind of like how some stores in BC and Alberta record info for ammo purchases, or some of the anti's with the "what do you need a gun for" argument.
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If a kid has a RPAL or a parant with such and thier permmission. I would not restrict thier access to a firearm. If they do not have one then no friggin way would I mail them a 45 calibre handgun! Don't even start with that line of thinking that turns into an article in the STAR .
14 year old shows up at school with highpowered handgun bought on the internet: Startling facts revealed..... No liscence.....Officer tells how the revolver packed as much Knoock down power as his service pistol..........

Do I want to be the jerk that was responsible for that?

oh and by the way I never had an unsafe moment with the cooey from a very, very, young age but I sure know it would be a lot easier for a kid make a costly mistake with a short barrelled gun, also we are talking ANTIQUE-Obsolete weapons. Little jonny might be more then adequatley responsible for handling the firearm but is he capapble of deciding if the given firearm and load is Safe??

Can we talk more about billowing clouds of smoke and cool ways to enjoy hurtling lead at modest velocities towards game and targets, instead of legal and moral issues associated with BP and antiques.LOL
 
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I'm not trying to start a fight here, so let's leave it at this. We all have different moral views and the right to hold them. In this case, the legalities are clear, and my view is above.
 
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I guess the bottom line is that we can sell antiques the way the responsible old timers used to do before there were laws that changed the focus away from personal resposibilitiy to simply meeting the letter of the law. We ought to exercise responsibility by assessing the responsibility and maturity of the person we are selling it to. When my parents trusted me with a firearm at the age of 13, there were very strict rules. As a teen, I once lost gun priviledges for a month for merely picking up and sighting down our 22 rifle without permission, even though it was done in a safe manner. (I'm sure none of us have ever picked up and sighted down and admired a rifle we really liked. heh, heh!). I like the idea of bringing back personally responsibility into society and this is one area where we can still exercise that virtue.
 
I like the idea of bringing back personally responsibility into society and this is one area where we can still exercise that virtue.
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Good work 38-55 that is a great way to look at it. I agree 110%
 
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