Restore or leave as is ?

Loyer

Loyer

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I picked up an old boxlock flintlock pistol recently. Mechanism works well but it's missing the top jaw and jaw screw.

The pistol has a patina of dark brown rust over the entire surface.

I don't want it to look brand new but thought knocking down the patina a bit would make it display better.

Question: would that de-value the gun as a collector piece ? Is there some middle ground between bright steel and dark brown patina that is still acceptable ?

What would you do ?



 
In the case of your particular pistol I would leave it alone as well.
You probably have no intention of ever shooting it, so leave it in its original shape as mentioned above.
 
I would take the wood off and leave it to soak in some diesel fuel for about ten days and then a very light buffing with brass wool.
 
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There are parts available.
Or they could be made. Top jaw screw would need a lathe.
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The top jaw and top jaw screw on this lock are replacements. The top jaw was on it when I bought the gun. Right shape, but no engraving. The screw that was there was awful, so
I made the top jaw screw in the photo. Measured the threads in the ####, set the lathe, slowly cut the threads until they were a nice fit in the ####, then did the shaping, and case hardened it.
JP's suggestion of how to deal with the metal is excellent. This will clean it, without doing any harm. The engraving can be carefully cleaned with a needle.
 

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If you are not going to leave as is, then google "Molasses rust removal"
Do first as an assembly without the wood. Then carefully attempt any disassembly for a second treatment.
Someone else may know better about what is best for the wood, however treating/soaking with tung oil carefully may be a consideration.
Reassemble with replacement parts & post pics.
Cheers
 
I would clean the rust off of it with fine steel wool and oil and then shoot it. Even though I collect / accumulate antiques, most rusty antiques don't excite me much. In your case what I would not do is take abrasive tape or buffing wheel to it. I think antique guns in medium to good condition should not be refinished but as their finish goes down in terms of the amount of rust on them, I don't think you lose much by cleaning them up a bit

cheers mooncoon
 
Electrolytic rust removal works well too and leaves the markings sharp (well as sharp as they can be if the rust has gotten them). I've used it on gun parts and automotive parts, easy and cheap with a battery charger and some washing (not baking) soda from the wal-mart - last time I used (IIRC) some dishwasher tablets that had the right stuff in em.

I avoid abrasives (certainly not wire or buffing wheels) but unless grime and dust add to the provenance, I never see harm in at least cleaning antiques if you do it right; and replacing missing pieces. Fine steel wool (especially with oil) is OK as others suggest.

Only my 0.02
 
mooncoon said:
I would clean the rust off of it with fine steel wool and oil and then shoot it. Even though I collect / accumulate antiques, most rusty antiques don't excite me much. In your case what I would not do is take abrasive tape or buffing wheel to it. I think antique guns in medium to good condition should not be refinished but as their finish goes down in terms of the amount of rust on them, I don't think you lose much by cleaning them up a bit

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

Well said ...enjoy it
 
Soft restore. Oil and extra fine steel wool for the metal. Hydrate the existing wood fully and replace the missing parts and artificially age them. If you need help msg me.
 
At the time this gun was made there were no standard screw sizes. So if you need to fit a new screw it will either need to be a custom made screw or have the hole chased to fit a close modern option or it will need to be drilled and tapped to some slightly larger modern size that is close.

I'm with Mooncoon on the fix or leave issue. At some point the "patina" is more about abuse or neglect than it is about honest and respectful wear from use and age. And this one has clearly seen it's time of neglect. Assuming you did not pay a heap of money for it some respectful restoration/repair would not be out of place IMO. But museum curators would roast me alongside Mooncoon for sharing his thinking... :D I do feel that where such neglect is honestly done such as finding a piece like this on a known battlefield or sunken warship and which took part in that battle that it SHOULD be at most lightly cleaned and left alone as a historical artifact. But if there's no significant history behind this particular piece and it sat forgotten and neglected in bad conditions then that's abuse and is fair game for restoration and repair in my books.

Will it devalue the piece? Almost certainly if it's not done well.

I actually think that I'd start with a "soft" and approved approach and buy some Renaissance Wax which is the product used by museums to stabilize the surfaces on older pieces. Rubbing the wax on and brushing it to buff it will remove the loose rust but that is a loss anyway. The resulting buff but non rusty look is likely to show far better than what you have now and won't reduce the value. If that isn't enough for you and you want to go further then up the anty from there in small carefully considered steps. It's easy to take stuff off... not so easy to put it back on.

It's not like this is ever going to be a shooter again. If the bore is as bad as the outside then it's too far gone to shoot well. And there likely isn't enough wall thickness to safely bore it out until you reach smooth unpitted metal and still be safe.
 
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Thing looks like hell. You're not doing it's historical significance any favors by leaving it looking like you dredged it out of a swamp, IMO. I wouldn't modify it at all, but I would clean it up.
 
The gun below is one which museum people would say should not be touched. Its provenance was that it was bought in a garage sale at some point in the past. The parts in the first photo have been cleaned up a bit. After rebuilding and repairing, we did fire 10 shots out it before cleaning and putting it on display. It shot minute of mastodon accuracy because the bore was like a sewer. If patina was important, I could always bury it in the garden for a while to restore the patina :>)

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i just used a product called evaporust to get the deep rust off a round sawmill blade ( for which i cut pieces off of to make hunting knives ) ... i was surprised after a nights soak in the solution, alot of the active rust was easy to remove with a srubby pad and running water. I wouldn't use it on wood at all, but it may work well on the metal pieces ... to avoid using any coarse abrasives !

i've delt with alot of collectors and restorations of edged stuff... in this regard, the piece must look like it was untouched/honest wear, but very well cared for ( for high value )

i don't know much about this kind of pistol... it would be worth your while to check it out before doing anything ( if its nothing significant, then i'd do abit but not over do it hah, if that makes sense )
 
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