Restricted firearms purchases from Epps

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Hate to revive such an old thread however this is what I found when I searched. I've just encountered the problem of trigger lock not fitting the case. I look up info to determine what my options are and seems a zap strap is considered to be acceptable however when I look on the RCMP site for the definition of a secure locking device I come up with a different description that what seems to be referenced.

"
secure locking device means a device

(a) that can only be opened or released by the use of an electronic, magnetic or mechanical key or by setting the device in accordance with an alphabetical or numerical combination; and

(b) that, when applied to a firearm, prevents the firearm from being discharged. (dispositif de verrouillage sécuritaire)
"

I would find the idea that a pair of side cutters were a "mechanical key" a difficult argument even for myself

Not sure how long the wording has been like this however I do notice that the information on that page has been changed as of Aug 1st so figure better to ask first in this scenario.

Thanks,
Bill
 
promac said:
IMO, using zip ties is an effective method of securing your restricted firearms according to the F.A. and the definition of "lock". However, I could see many LEO's interpreting "locked" to mean using a key or combination lock - so you might get charged anyway. If you're running a business, do you really want to risk it? I wouldn't.
Click to expand...

Hoping one day we can get this nonsense sorted out. Thanks for posting the rules promac.
Seeing as the registered portion of a restricted firearm is either the frame or lower receiver, I suppose transporting the frame and/or lower receiver only requires a secure locking device on the trigger and a locked container f:P:2: . Seems quite stupid to me.
 
The legal requirements for transporting restricted firearms are spelled in regulation SOR/98-209. The text of the regulation is available here:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-209/FullText.html

From the definitions section:

secure locking device means a device

(a) that can only be opened or released by the use of an electronic, magnetic or mechanical key or by setting the device in accordance with an alphabetical or numerical combination; and

(b) that, when applied to a firearm, prevents the firearm from being discharged. (dispositif de verrouillage sécuritaire)
Click to expand...

So no, you cannot use zip ties, chords, shoelaces or any other contraption that does not use a key or an alphanumeric combination.
 
Definition of key
1
a : a usually metal instrument by which the bolt of a lock is turned
b : any of various devices having the form or function of such a key a key for winding a clock
2
a : a means of gaining or preventing entrance, possession, or control
b : an instrumental or deciding factor the key to her success
3
a : something that gives an explanation or identification or provides a solution the key to a riddle
b : a list of words or phrases giving an explanation of symbols or abbreviations a pronunciation key in a dictionary
c : an aid to interpretation or identification : clue a key to understanding their motivation
d : an arrangement of the salient characters of a group of plants or animals or of taxa designed to facilitate identification
e : a map legend
4
a : a part to be depressed by a finger that serves as one unit of a keyboard; also : a representation of such a key (such as a space delineated on a touch screen)
Tiny keys on your iPhone's screen can be difficult to hit accurately. — Cherlynn Low
b : one of the levers of a keyboard musical instrument that actuates the mechanism and produces the tones
c : a lever that controls a vent in the side of a woodwind instrument or a valve in a brass instrument
5
: a system of tones and harmonies generated from a hierarchical scale of seven tones based on a tonic the key of G major
6
a : characteristic style or tone
b : the tone or pitch of a voice
c : the predominant tone of a photograph with respect to its lightness or darkness
7
: a decoration or charm resembling a key
8
: a small switch for opening or closing an electric circuit a telegraph key
9
: the set of instructions governing the encipherment and decipherment of messages an encryption key
10
: a free-throw area in basketball : free throw lane a jump shot from the top of the key
11
a (1) : cotter pin (2) : cotter
b : a keystone in an arch
c : a small piece of wood or metal used as a wedge or for preventing motion between parts
12
: samara
keyedplay \ˈkēd\ adjective.

Here you have it. A 'key' can be any tool that is required to unlock that which is locked. Zip ties need a tool to unlock (undo) them therefore they are good to go.
 
How hard is it to bring a lockable opaque box and a trigger lock into the store when you know you are going to buy a handgun?

OK, so you're won't be a hero if you don't use zip ties and 'stick it to the man'.:rolleyes:
 
Without naming names, how many of you have received via courier or CP a restricted firearm without a lock? I certainly have. Zip tied case and sometimes trigger. Sometimes one of those screw on trigger locks. Not one had a lock on it. Granted, once I have it in my possession a lock is applied and stored properly.
Again, stupid stuff.
 
win94luver said:
How hard is it to bring a lockable opaque box and a trigger lock into the store when you know you are going to buy a handgun?

OK, so you're won't be a hero if you don't use zip ties and 'stick it to the man'.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

It's more about CP shipping. If you order a restricted online, Epps will want to sell you a trigger lock and a lockable container for shipping. Most stores will just ship the gun in its original box.

I've never had any of my restricted come in by CP or courrier with any kind of locking mechanism. I called my CFO when I shipped a restricted for warranty work to ask that very question, and his answer was "no need, but make sure you request signature upon delivery". He was insisting on the signature part, didn't care in any way about the gun being locked.

As for when you pick up a gun in person at a brick and mortar store, the moment you are in possession of the gun, it's your problem, not the store's. If you want to carry it legally or illegally, locked or unlocked, loaded or not, hidden or visible, in your mouth or in your hands, it's 100% your problem, and if you get arrested it'll be you serving the sentence.
 
So if you use a keyed lock for case and firearm do you just tape the key to the container? Or mail it seperatly ... Lmao.
 
VinnyQC said:
It's more about CP shipping. If you order a restricted online, Epps will want to sell you a trigger lock and a lockable container for shipping. Most stores will just ship the gun in its original box.

I've never had any of my restricted come in by CP or courrier with any kind of locking mechanism. I called my CFO when I shipped a restricted for warranty work to ask that very question, and his answer was "no need, but make sure you request signature upon delivery". He was insisting on the signature part, didn't care in any way about the gun being locked.

As for when you pick up a gun in person at a brick and mortar store, the moment you are in possession of the gun, it's your problem, not the store's. If you want to carry it legally or illegally, locked or unlocked, loaded or not, hidden or visible, in your mouth or in your hands, it's 100% your problem, and if you get arrested it'll be you serving the sentence.
Click to expand...

I think Epps is concerned that things are done right while on their property.
They don't want accidents or publicity relating to firearms charges linked to the store.
Something like the proprietor of a bar calling a patron a taxi when he's had a few too many.

I've sent restricteds (back when I owned restricteds) locked with a combo trigger lock in a box locked with a combination pad lock with the ATT inside and emailed the recipient the combinations.
 
VinnyQC said:
It's more about CP shipping. If you order a restricted online, Epps will want to sell you a trigger lock and a lockable container for shipping. Most stores will just ship the gun in its original box.
Click to expand...
I don't see anything in the original post suggesting that its Epps' policy to ship with a trigger lock and/or in a locked container. The regulation that I cited above specifically states that it does not apply to firearms that are in the process of being shipped via Canada Post:

2(3): These Regulations do not apply to the storage and transportation of a non-restricted firearm, restricted firearm or prohibited handgun in the course of transmission by post within Canada from the time the firearm or handgun is posted to the time it is delivered to the addressee, within the meaning of subsection 2(2) of the Canada Post Corporation Act, or returned to the sender.
Click to expand...
 
Ya, and if some poor bastard started a new thread asking a question about it, some other donkey will chirp him/ her for not using the search function properly. :)
 
Silly question (not really), has someone thought of just, you know, calling the RCMP and ask them?

Odds are they will give a waffle answer
 
Onagoth said:
8 years between posts...what do I win?
Click to expand...
Wayback.jpg
 
wrtiii said:
Hate to revive such an old thread however this is what I found when I searched. I've just encountered the problem of trigger lock not fitting the case. I look up info to determine what my options are and seems a zap strap is considered to be acceptable however when I look on the RCMP site for the definition of a secure locking device I come up with a different description that what seems to be referenced.

"
secure locking device means a device

(a) that can only be opened or released by the use of an electronic, magnetic or mechanical key or by setting the device in accordance with an alphabetical or numerical combination; and

(b) that, when applied to a firearm, prevents the firearm from being discharged. (dispositif de verrouillage sécuritaire)
"

I would find the idea that a pair of side cutters were a "mechanical key" a difficult argument even for myself

Not sure how long the wording has been like this however I do notice that the information on that page has been changed as of Aug 1st so figure better to ask first in this scenario.

Thanks,
Bill
Click to expand...

The CFO has told the store they are not to be using Zip ties for locking their firearms on the shelf as they do not consider it a locking device. hence the annoying lever action trigger locks on guns that they do not work on.
 
VinnyQC said:
It's more about CP shipping. If you order a restricted online, Epps will want to sell you a trigger lock and a lockable container for shipping. Most stores will just ship the gun in its original box.

I've never had any of my restricted come in by CP or courrier with any kind of locking mechanism. I called my CFO when I shipped a restricted for warranty work to ask that very question, and his answer was "no need, but make sure you request signature upon delivery". He was insisting on the signature part, didn't care in any way about the gun being locked.

As for when you pick up a gun in person at a brick and mortar store, the moment you are in possession of the gun, it's your problem, not the store's. If you want to carry it legally or illegally, locked or unlocked, loaded or not, hidden or visible, in your mouth or in your hands, it's 100% your problem, and if you get arrested it'll be you serving the sentence.
Click to expand...

un true. when shipping restricted they do not need to be trigger locked or cased. if you dont buy one and the gun does not come with one, it is safely packaged and padded and shipped to you.
 
win94luver said:
I think Epps is concerned that things are done right while on their property.
They don't want accidents or publicity relating to firearms charges linked to the store.
Something like the proprietor of a bar calling a patron a taxi when he's had a few too many.

I've sent restricteds (back when I owned restricteds) locked with a combo trigger lock in a box locked with a combination pad lock with the ATT inside and emailed the recipient the combinations.
Click to expand...

We at the store are not the police we cannot force you to do something. we inform you of what the CFO has told us. if you choose to follow it, that is up to you. if you decide your AR is ok in the cardboard box after being informed it needs to be in a locked case and trigger locked. that is on you. you were informed of what is expected of you by the cfo.
 
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