Thanks for setting the record straight ( I really do appreciate It) . From all my lurking , my statement is all I have viewed . Just to get to the bottom of things for me has anyone other than the guy in Ontario had this expierence where police showed up and said the loaded mag and unlocked pistol in a container is ok?
Restricted Rifle Storage
- Thread starter tpirovol
- Start date
Thanks for setting the record straight ( I really do appreciate It) . From all my lurking , my statement is all I have viewed . Just to get to the bottom of things for me has anyone other than the guy in Ontario had this expierence where police showed up and said the loaded mag and unlocked pistol in a container is ok?
If you are referring to the Henry Barnes decision, the police didn't show up and say it was ok. They mugged him, confiscated all his guns and charged him with unsafe storage. The judge is the one that decided the reinforced lockers were acceptable as "safes". The decision is only applicable in Ontario and is not binding on any other provincial legal system.
Of course you are correct. Locks are always only for the honest people. There isn't a safe available for less than thousands of $$$ that can't be broken in just a few minutes with the right tools and some effort. The only reason I own a safe is to keep the gesta, err police off my back with respect to our ridiculous, offensive "safe storage" laws.
Mark
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... Pun intended !
- Location
- south of Detroit
^If its a "safe", yes. If its a cabinet, locker, metal box, no.
Please find a copy of Black's Legal Dictionary, read the description of the word safe and then attempt to explain exactly what the hell you're trying to say. Given the lack of a specific definition in the Law, Blacks is the go-to reference, if Black's doesn't have it, then it's the Oxford English Dictionary. This battle has been won, pretending it hasn't is cowardice. If the restricted is stored in something that meets the common definition of safe, as per Black's or Oxford, it can be stored without a trigger lock, and can be stored with a full magazine BESIDE (not inside) it.
A proper gun safe is a great investment and should be your first major purchase,,,you can get a stack-on total defense 36 gun safe at Canadian tire on sale for $800.00 sometimes,,retail is $1600,,,some will tell you they are not the best,,but for the money,,you can't beat them,,,i started with one of them,,,and those who say they are easy to get into,,havent tried getting into mine,,,,security is mostly in the installation details,,,bolted down at the very least,,,non-hinge side of the door against a solid wall to eliminate room to use prying device,,,now some will tell you,,thieves will only cut into the sides or top,,,i solved that problem too,,by building the alcove my safe fits into,,with an extra 2 layers of durock sheeting for fire protection,,,sandwiched with 1/2 rubber sheeting,,,an a layer of 1/4 plastic,,,so when they try and cut into my safe they will be making a LOT of smoke,,,which will set off 2 hidden smoke detectors liked to an alarm system,,,so if they keep trying to cut into the safe,,they will have a hard time seeing anything,,LOL..and inhale a lot of rubber smoke,,not fun,,and kinda hard to breathe,,access to the room the safe is in is also alarmed,,,i also have close neighbors,,who know to cal police if they see ANYTHING around ,,,so even if you buy a cheap safe like the stack-ons,,,your installation will help GREATLY in keeping your toys safe,,,allthough i did go a little overboard on my install,,i only spent about $200.00 extra for my install,,also,,remember FIREPROOF sealant for the old down bolts,,,i added 4 to each side as well as back,,good luck trying to get it out of the spot it's in,,LOL...a friends of mine went so far as to form his alcove for the safe out of concrete,,,he works in concrete,,,and added a 1/2 thick steel plate to the door with bolts countersunk and welded in the front,,,can't even see their where bolts there,,,,so keeping your toys safe is greatly affected by your imagination as well,,,have fun,,and keep your guns OUT of criminal's hands,,
- Location
- B.C. (southern interior)
Yes, but every one will think your evil and are feeding the anti gun agenda & their propaganda machine , or Satan... But the sad truth is that if a criminal breaks into your house and steals any of your guns you could be charged with unsafe storage and it does not matter if they where in the crappy Canadian tire/Costco safe, a locked plastic case with a trigger lock or the super duper mega unobtainium grade safe with a dna encrypted lock personal DVR and 8 channel surround sound.
I bought a safe recently just to make my life easier as there is guns and ammo spread out all over the house i just want to get it all in one place. I bought the 36 gun stack on safe from cambodian tire when it was on sale back in early November... Not that it has arrived yet... till it comes trigger locked in a locked container under my bed will have to be good enough.
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One note - I'm not suggesting that people not buy $2000 safes, if you can afford it and that's what you want, go for it. I'm just sick of people saying that there's some kind of LEGAL difference (ie written down in the law) between a locking metal storage cabinet and a Fort Knox 'El Presidente' with purple fur lining. From a legal standpoint, both meet the test of "safe" - and while the Ontario decision isn't binding in other provinces, you can be certain that the crown prosecutors elsewhere don't want to be beyotch slapped for trying to do something that's already been a loser elsewhere. They don't want that precedent being set in their own jurisdiction over something trivial.
Part of what bugs me about all of this is that it's part of the indoctrination process that they use on new shooters - the video shows a guy doing something patently absurd and says something to the effect of "Responsible gun users go above and beyond what the law requires to be safe with their firearms" - what cr*p. Seriously. It's the Fuddest thing on earth to inflict greater restriction on yourself than you have to in order to somehow 'prove' to some idiot who's opinion means SFA that you're safer than the safest safe. Maybe we should all restrict ourselves to single shot 22 cal rifles with 26 inch barrels in order to be safer than safe with firearms? Frankly this is propaganda to make you think there's more than common sense involved in the handling and storage of firearms, there isn't.
Part of what bugs me about all of this is that it's part of the indoctrination process that they use on new shooters - the video shows a guy doing something patently absurd and says something to the effect of "Responsible gun users go above and beyond what the law requires to be safe with their firearms" - what cr*p. Seriously. It's the Fuddest thing on earth to inflict greater restriction on yourself than you have to in order to somehow 'prove' to some idiot who's opinion means SFA that you're safer than the safest safe. Maybe we should all restrict ourselves to single shot 22 cal rifles with 26 inch barrels in order to be safer than safe with firearms? Frankly this is propaganda to make you think there's more than common sense involved in the handling and storage of firearms, there isn't.
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Ya I would get a steardy container of some sort, minimum a cheap lockable gun cabinet. My reasoning is if u r ever inspected it is the inspector (police) idea of safe storage so if he in a bad mood look out he can charge u then u have to prove ur storage was safe enough in court witch is more costly then $100 to $800 gun locker or safe! Secondly a friend of mine builds firearm storage units for the Canadian military, us aircraft carries and when I asked him to build something for me (smaller scale lol) that is safe he told me it doesn't matter how strong u build a room for firearm if someone breaks into it u will surly be charged with unsafe storage! His words if some can steal it then the laws vague safe interpretation is how they see it to be fit. Also I believe the law states something about a time fram of how long it would take u to access ur own firearms due to suicide being one of the leading death with legally owned guns, reason that time can give that person those few extra seconds to think of what they r about to do. Also Look up Ian Thompson Of southern Ontario (niagra on the lake) his house was being fire bombed by several masked men so he took a hand gun out & shot warning shots to disperse them so he can try to put his burning house out to save his family. The end results was the police charged him with unsafe firearm storage! Read the write up & watch his servailance video of the whole firebombing. The police said he had to easy of access to his firearm therefor unsafe storage. The end result is buy something that the police will say ya not the best but better then a restricted weapon in a case that is easly picked up & takeable cause a soft or hard gun case isn't even trying to be safe at all! Canadian tire always have stack on lockers on sale as little as $89 with a lock on it then take a drill and use the provided bolts to mount to the studs in the wall or floor it's easy the holes always can be filled with wood fillers or plaster. Do all us gun owners a favor & take as much safe measures as u can, we don't need any more bs thrown at us by those UFO sighting, tree hugging, squirrel petting gun haters ,please!!!!
So much of this....
I still have never gotten over how the one thing we practiced when I did my test was the fence crossing (its really stuck in my craw since, and this was awhile back)... I still remember thinking to myself back when... "Isn't this basically covered by controlling muzzle direction?" "So I'm learning how to cross a fence?" "This of all things is what I need to practice.... really?"
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- Location
- south of Detroit
Ha, forgot about this thread. Ya the definition is cloudy, hence the quotation marks. They were put there to entice the OP to do some homework and investigate as much as possible, cuz anybody that has taken the time to look will find that there is a lack of specific definition in the law. Depends who you ask. I have met people who actually think a metal cabinet from stack-on, operated with a key, is a "safe". I myself decided to buy an actual 3 bolt "safe" and trigger lock my restricteds. I also choose not to leave any ammo/loaded mags in the safe either. I don't feel the need . I can assure you it is not cowardice, it is just personal preference. Some may do more, some Im sure will do less, thats just the way I do it.
