Revolver help! H&R 649 trigger and cylinder issue

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platnumbob

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hi guys, I recently got my first revolver, an older H&R 649 and unfortunately just ran into some issues just prior to what was going to be its first range trip tomorrow :( In background these are cowboy style revolvers but actually work in both double and single action. I have always owned semi autos so I know little about how revolvers work, but generally speaking the little piece behind the cylinder that would usually rotate it seems to be messed up, only sometimes engaging, and often times the trigger will lock and the hammer will not drop. Any ideas? I have a video posted to show the issues.

[video]http://s3.photobucket.com/user/platnumbob/media/IMG_1549.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0[/video]

The gun was working fine (at least firing with just snap caps) until today when I was playing with it and the hammer locked back and the trigger would not disengage.

Thanks CGN
 
that little piece is called the hand. It pivots off the hammer.
it has a spring on it that holds it against the back of the cylinder.
That spring can break.
Hold the iron with the barrel pointed at the ground and see if it cycles properly.
If so your hand spring is likely bent,broken,jammed with crud, etc
 
I'd bet that the spring for the hand has broken and the bit that came off is drifting around in the action and causing the intermittent trigger issues you're getting as well as the lack of correct hand operation.

A quick google image search for a parts diagram for your gun turned up both diagrams and pictures of what the hand and spring looks like. I'd suggest you do the same search and then open the gun up. Or if you're not handy that way then it's time for a gunsmith.

Something to consider is that the hand in many revolvers is a part that requires careful hand fitting to ensure the cylinder is timed correctly. So it's likely that even if you get a new one that you'll need to dress it down to fit it correctly.
 
Thanks Brotherockeye if by iron pointed to the ground you mean pistol then when I #### the hammer or pull the trigger in that position the cylinder still will not spin, however with the cylinder out I can see that the "hand" is popping out much more consistently (perhaps does not have strength to move the cylinder?) the trigger will still slip and not always engage in that position but is a bit better.

Does that still sound like a hand spring issue? Should I assume that my best bet at this stage is to buy a brass punch and just knock out all of the pins holding the pistol together and have a peek inside? Lol
 
BCRider said:
I'd bet that the spring for the hand has broken and the bit that came off is drifting around in the action and causing the intermittent trigger issues you're getting as well as the lack of correct hand operation.

A quick google image search for a parts diagram for your gun turned up both diagrams and pictures of what the hand and spring looks like. I'd suggest you do the same search and then open the gun up. Or if you're not handy that way then it's time for a gunsmith.

Something to consider is that the hand in many revolvers is a part that requires careful hand fitting to ensure the cylinder is timed correctly. So it's likely that even if you get a new one that you'll need to dress it down to fit it correctly.
Click to expand...

Good info- does the replacement of the "spring" affect timing or just the replacement of the hand itself? I imagine they connect together with the trigger mechanism somehow inside.
 
platnumbob said:
Good info- does the replacement of the "spring" affect timing or just the replacement of the hand itself? I imagine they connect together with the trigger mechanism somehow inside.
Click to expand...

no, replacing the hand spring will not affect timing.
The hand spring goes into a slot in the back of the hand

I used my mad paint skills...for us visual learners...
Hopefully you recognize the hammer.
The hand is the little black doflinker with the red line being the hand spring


Untitled_zpsd488bbca.jpg


better yet, follow this link and check out the exploded views

Code: 
https://www.google.ca/search?q=H%26R+649&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=ThPNVJXHKcu2yASwzYDQCw#q=H%26R+649+parts+diagram
 
Last edited:
Thanks guys appreciate the comments and sweet diagrams! I will pick up some brass punches and post some pics of what I find. Since this pistol is a few decades old it could probably use an internal scrub anyway.
 
Well with disassembly half complete I can't see the hand spring (which means it may have snapped off) - unfortunatly I need a 1/16th brass punch the finish disassembly and that seems pretty difficult to source in Calgary. Smallest I could find was 1/8th from the usual suspects. Update when I can source the right size to finish ☺️
 
I had a H&R with a similar issue.

This is the little doo-dad that you'll need.

219590.JPG


The good news is they're somewhat readily available and cheap. The pain is the shipping costs out of the states.

Bad news: not a drop in and play item. They need to be trimmed to proper length or they'll screw up your cylinder timing. Too short and the cylinder won't rotate far enough. Too long and the cylinder over rotates, hits the lock and everything stops.
If you're handy with files, lay the old one over the new one and slowly file it down. I suggest picking up a couple....just in case :mad:.

(E) :cool:
 
Lay over the old and file or stone down as suggested. But I'd stop just with just a hair left to go and test it. This assumes also that you know what you're looking to feel and can test the gun to ensure that at full lockup the chambers line up with the barrel too.
 
Well, finally located a punch the complete the disassembly. I think Echo was dead on with the part - which I think is a hand and spring assembly? Here are some pics:

It may not show up that well but the inside was disgusting (probably should have been taken apart anyway)


This is probably the problematic piece - as Echo and brotherockeye others pointed out - you can see the long skinny hand spring piece (I am assuming that this is what this is called) is bent off to the side a bit.


This picture shows where the hand and spring connects to the trigger assembly. You may notice a little hole that looks like the skinny spring piece should sit in. The spring was bent and not in the hole, rather it was jammed in the mechanism beside. Can anyone confirm that the spring is supposed to go in that hole?


Finally, I also noticed that the little crescent hole in the hammer has somewhat distorted (and/or some metal has been sheared off). Is this causing any of my issues or would the issues be only with respect to the hand/ spring mechanism? To be honest I cant remember what that crescent hole interacted with - so I am not sure if it would matter.



In short, a few questions for the revolver experts :)

1.) Is that spring piece supposed to go into the hole as pictured above?

-should I just bent the spring back into the hole and call it good?

2.) Which pieces should I replace? (ie. that spring piece only or also the hammer?)

3.) Where is the best place to locate the parts for order (and what are the parts called!)

4.) Stay tuned - I hope I can get this baby back together, Ha.

Thanks Gun Nutz
 
1. Yes, the spring is supposed to go in the hole. Works on tension instead of compression. (pulls the lever forward) Yours has popped out, caught on something and bent. You can try to straighten it out and reinsert. Worse case is you end up back at square one. BEWARE!!! The spring may be work hardened and brittle. Check the bottom of the spring. If it looks jagged, odds are a piece has broken off, allowing it to pop out of the hole.

2. The lever for sure. The hammer is up to you.

3. With a bit of calling around and scrounging, you might be able to find these in Canada. Otherwise, there's Numrich in the States.
These are the two parts right from Numrich's website: hammer lever and spring <<click on the links - you want the "C" version of the lever.
As warned before, the parts are cheap......it's the shipping and processing fees that add up.

4. Best of luck!!!

(E) :cool:
 
So I have my parts - I actually ordered two springs to be on the safe side. The factory spring length is definitely a bit too long. Is there any reason I can't cut it down with tin snips or something? When people suggest files is the recommendation to just run the tip of the spring back and forth over a hand metal file until it slowly wears down?
 
What about the cylinder stop pin at the bottom of the cylinder in the frame. Is it locking up and not always dropping out of the way when the revolver is cocked? I'd check that also.
 
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