Revolver or Semi-auto?

The reason that revolvers are usually more accurate than semiautomatic pistols is because the barrel is fixed to the frame whereas most auto pistols have a non-fixed barrel due to being recoil operated.

The exception to this is with .22 rimfire, in which auto pistols are blowback operated and have a fixed barrel. I find that my S&W Model 41 shoots noticeably better than my K-22, for example.
 
tjhaile said:
The reason that revolvers are usually more accurate than semiautomatic pistols is because the barrel is fixed to the frame whereas most auto pistols have a non-fixed barrel due to being recoil operated.

The exception to this is with .22 rimfire, in which auto pistols are blowback operated and have a fixed barrel. I find that my S&W Model 41 shoots noticeably better than my K-22, for example.
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BS!!!!
The barrels on autos do tilt(not all autos), hence the design style "Browning tilt action". The barrel is locked up and stationary while firing so its a non issue. Your revolver might be accurate, but eventually your timing will go and your cylinder no longer aligns properly. Does this affect accuracy? I couldn't tell you. Does this require work from the smith? YEP. Don't have that issue with autos.

The shooter is responsible for 90% of the performance in shooting. Proclaiming or blaming the gear is for the ill informed. Revolvers are often viewed as more accurate due to their very short and crisp single action triggers. The same can be said for 1911's that have been tuned. The advantage to such triggers is in their ability to hide improper trigger squeeze and ones flinch better than a DA trigger. Try printing a tight group running the DA trigger on your revolver. I can guarantee you'll lose to an auto everytime. DA triggers on revolvers are too heavy, too long, and there's too much sh*t moving on the gun to remain steady.

Aside from the above, why would you need a pistol to shoot 1-2" groups at 25 yards? The pistols in question are SERVICE GUNS. Designed for acceptable shot placement on people at effective handgun ranges which means 25 yards and less. They aren't precision tools with respect to Olympic level gear. Nor are the sights designed for extreme precision. If that kind of performance is what you seek, you're chasing a white elephant.

TDC
 
It's not that barrel is fixed to the frame that makes revolvers accurate it's;

a) front sight is fixed to the barrel and not to a side... and

b) longer sight radius; since cylinder doesn't count as a barrel plus revolvers on average have a longer barrels than autos to start with. (esp in Canada)

sure crisp SA trigger helps but you can 'stage' a DA trigger as well and still be as accurate ;)

-coming from a semiauto guy :)
;)
 
TDC said:
BS!!!!
The barrels on autos do tilt(not all autos), hence the design style "Browning tilt action". The barrel is locked up and stationary while firing so its a non issue. Your revolver might be accurate, but eventually your timing will go and your cylinder no longer aligns properly. Does this affect accuracy? I couldn't tell you. Does this require work from the smith? YEP. Don't have that issue with autos.

The shooter is responsible for 90% of the performance in shooting. Proclaiming or blaming the gear is for the ill informed. Revolvers are often viewed as more accurate due to their very short and crisp single action triggers. The same can be said for 1911's that have been tuned. The advantage to such triggers is in their ability to hide improper trigger squeeze and ones flinch better than a DA trigger. Try printing a tight group running the DA trigger on your revolver. I can guarantee you'll lose to an auto everytime. DA triggers on revolvers are too heavy, too long, and there's too much sh*t moving on the gun to remain steady.

Aside from the above, why would you need a pistol to shoot 1-2" groups at 25 yards? The pistols in question are SERVICE GUNS. Designed for acceptable shot placement on people at effective handgun ranges which means 25 yards and less. They aren't precision tools with respect to Olympic level gear. Nor are the sights designed for extreme precision. If that kind of performance is what you seek, you're chasing a white elephant.

TDC
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Ballocks!

I'm talking about the mechanical accuracy of the guns themselves. I am not arguing that any accuracy difference between the two is relevant to their relative merits as a service pistol. Likewise, I am not disputing that few shooters can actually shoot to the accuracy potential of either gun, nor that a double action trigger is much more difficult to master.

Please stop beating your straw men; I think they've suffered enough.

As far as timing goes, any modern S&W or Ruger will require a LOT of wear and tear from normal use before it starts to have timing issues; on the order of several times the cost of the gun in ammo.

Why would you want 1"-2" groups at 25 yards? Why not? There are many handgun applications besides Olympic disciplines which require better than "service pistol" accuracy:

-Bullseye (aka Conventional Pistol)
-Handgun metallic silhouette shooting
-Hunting
-Long range target shooting

I don't recall the original poster specifying that he was looking for a service pistol.
 
tjhaile said:
Ballocks!

I'm talking about the mechanical accuracy of the guns themselves. I am not arguing that any accuracy difference between the two is relevant to their relative merits as a service pistol. Likewise, I am not disputing that few shooters can actually shoot to the accuracy potential of either gun, nor that a double action trigger is much more difficult to master.

Please stop beating your straw men; I think they've suffered enough.

As far as timing goes, any modern S&W or Ruger will require a LOT of wear and tear from normal use before it starts to have timing issues; on the order of several times the cost of the gun in ammo.

Why would you want 1"-2" groups at 25 yards? Why not? There are many handgun applications besides Olympic disciplines which require better than "service pistol" accuracy:

-Bullseye (aka Conventional Pistol)
-Handgun metallic silhouette shooting
-Hunting
-Long range target shooting

I don't recall the original poster specifying that he was looking for a service pistol.
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Mechanical or intrinsic accuracy is irrelevant if the shooter cannot operate the pistol to such levels. Ease of operation and obtainable accuracy is far more important. There are very few people who are capable of running a pistol or rifle to its full potential.

Again, desiring a pistol capable of 1-2" groups is a pointless venture if the shooter is unable to produce such results. Regardless, I have no doubt there are many off the shelf autos capable of such accuracy as well. Kimber comes to mind, I've seen several shooters print impressive groups at 25 yards and better.

As for timing, I can't offer much personal experience as I don't own revolvers. Either way you cut it, the revolver will need work at some point in its life for timing or other issues. Autos don't require such work....Ever.

Bullseye shooting with a service pistol is working outside the intended purpose of the firearm. Feel free to participate but understand the tool in use was not intended for such discipline. Same can be said for silhouette shooting.

Hunting with handguns is both illegal in this country and IMO unethical as the vast majority of handgun catridges do not offer sufficient terminal performance for an ethical kill.

Long range target shooting is beyond the intended design of all pistols. If you have success that's great, but again it is not what handguns were designed for. Especially service pistols.


As for sight radius. That is another BS myth. Sights that are aligned are aligned regardless of the distance between them. The sights on your rifle or pistol are always aligned. It is your interpretation of the sights and subsequently the orientation of the bore that differs.

TDC
 
Again, at what point did the original poster say he was looking for a service pistol? If he is looking for something for casual target shooting rather than a carry gun or formal competition, personal preference should be the deciding factor. Different strokes for different folks!

While there are some auto pistols capable of astounding accuracy out of the box, they are in the minority. On average, out of the box, centrefire revolvers will tend to outshoot centrefire auto pistols.

Furthermore, who said anything about using a service pistol for Bullseye competition or silhouette shooting? This game requires greater accuracy than that available from the average "duty" auto pistol, as well as considerable skill, to be competitive. Likewise, pistols set up for Bullseye are not suitable for carry due to the tight tolerances required for maximum accuracy.

Hunting with a handgun may not be legal here, but that does not rule out hunting in other more enlightened locations. Handgun hunting is no less ethical than hunting with bows, shotgun slugs, or any other short range weapon.

The fact of the matter is that duty/CCW are not the only things handguns are used for. Auto pistols fill some roles better and revolvers fill other roles better.
 
tjhaile said:
Again, at what point did the original poster say he was looking for a service pistol? If he is looking for something for casual target shooting rather than a carry gun or formal competition, personal preference should be the deciding factor. Different strokes for different folks!

While there are some auto pistols capable of astounding accuracy out of the box, they are in the minority. On average, out of the box, centrefire revolvers will tend to outshoot centrefire auto pistols.

Furthermore, who said anything about using a service pistol for Bullseye competition or silhouette shooting? This game requires greater accuracy than that available from the average "duty" auto pistol, as well as considerable skill, to be competitive. Likewise, pistols set up for Bullseye are not suitable for carry due to the tight tolerances required for maximum accuracy.

Hunting with a handgun may not be legal here, but that does not rule out hunting in other more enlightened locations. Handgun hunting is no less ethical than hunting with bows, shotgun slugs, or any other short range weapon.

The fact of the matter is that duty/CCW are not the only things handguns are used for. Auto pistols fill some roles better and revolvers fill other roles better.
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You're right, the OP hasn't indicated what their intended purpose for the handgun is. Until they decide that and disclose the reason all this debate is pointless.

The ability of any firearm to perform is directly related to the range at which the are employed. For extended range, there are few handguns that can produce excellent results and even fewer shooters.

As for the hunting issue. Slugs are far more effective than any handgun cartridge. Seeing how shotguns are shoulder controlled, the probability of making a vital zone hit is far greater than with a handgun. Add to that the increased muzzle velocity and subsequent terminal performance and there's no doubt a shotgun is far more ethical and effective than a handgun.

Service for LE or MIL are not the only things handguns are used for. Both roles are however the reason handguns were developed. Even the tuned race guns used in competition are based on service pistols.

TDC
 
TDC said:
…Again, desiring a pistol capable of 1-2" groups is a pointless venture if the shooter is unable to produce such results.

…Either way you cut it, the revolver will need work at some point in its life for timing or other issues. Autos don't require such work....Ever. TDC
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If we assume that average shooter can make offhand 3” group shooting a perfect gun/ammo combo, in case his gun and ammo make 3” group, his total group will double to 6”. IMHO, the fastest way for beginner to get frustrated and give up shooting is to start with clunker. Been there, than that! Believe it or not, I started with old loose 455 Webley (please don’t ask why). When fellow shooter realised what I was doing, he let me try his 66; I couldn’t believe my eyes when I made 4” group. Next one was S&W 41… Well, old Webley was gone following weeks and my next guns were S&W 41 and 27.

There is a reason why old dogs always suggest starting with nice 22. They are, especially rigid barrel semiauto, very accurate guns.

If shooting is going to be trying to hit one foot metal plate at 25 yds, I would say ANY handgun will do it. Move plate on 50 yds and result will be quite different.

Regarding timing issue on modern 357 L-frame, N-frame or GP, as others pointed, you have to shoot a LOT of full power 357 ammo. With target loads, even bit hotter 38 level, only if shooter neglects the gun.
 
.38 S&W will fit and will shoot, in a last-ditch situation, but the bullet is soft and oversized. The .38 S&W cartridge, relatively rare and relatively expensive, is better saved for .38 S&W chambered revolvers.
 
Dave_Shotgun said:
I'll stick to 38 special then and occasionally 357 magnum bullets. :)
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Folks in my club shoot half scale (25, 50, 750, 100 meters) silhouette, using mostly 357 revolvers. Accuracy of their revolvers and ammo is 2” max. at 25 meters. If group is larger than that, forget about hitting anything beyond 50 meters. As far as I know, all loads are with 150-160 gr cast plain base bullets, velocities 900-1100 fps, and most of them are shooting ammo loaded in 357 brass. Considering excellent powder and bullet selection, I see no reason for loading ammo in 38 brass for 357 revolver. Just my 0.2 cents…
 
Onty said:
Folks in my club shoot half scale (25, 50, 750, 100 meters) silhouette, using mostly 357 revolvers. Accuracy of their revolvers and ammo is 2” max. at 25 meters. If group is larger than that, forget about hitting anything beyond 50 meters. As far as I know, all loads are with 150-160 gr cast plain base bullets, velocities 900-1100 fps, and none of them is shooting ammo loaded in 38 Special brass. Considering excellent powder and bullet selection, I just see no reason for loading ammo in 38 brass for 357 revolver. Just my 0.2 cents…
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The only reason I use .38 spl brass is because .357 brass is a lot more expensive. Accuracy either way is similar in my L-frames and GP100 (have not really measured), but I would imagine for competition, the .357 brass will produce slightly better accuracy.
 
I'll start with 38 special ammo first with my Ruger GP100, because it's cheaper and produces less recoil than the 357 magnum ammo. It will be my first handgun (once it arrives). When I'm a confident shooter, I'll try the 357 brass. :)
 
In my experiance in my L frame. the .38 brass and .357 will produce similiar accuracy if using longer bullets ( ie 158 swc and 148 HBWC) if you keep the forcing cone clean of lead build up. From the bench rest my L frame with 148 HBWC target loads (3.0 of 231) will print well under 2" closer to 1". I have not seen any semi auto centre fire under $2000 do this. The only exception maybe a smith model 51? - the .38 special target gun. My .45, 9mm and 40 guns are all in the 2-4" range with good ammo.
Just my 2 cents.
Andy
 
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